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Öllegård
16-03-16, 03:37
Jag försökte med google translate men fick bara fram "first name". Det stämmer ju inte alls alltid. Många har flera förnamn och tilltalsnamnet behöver inte alls vara det första. Min far hade tre förnamn men tilltalsnamnet var det mellersta.

Eller finns det inget självklart ord på engelska så man måste skriva typ "Anna Sanna, called Sanna"?

Hasse
16-03-16, 08:44
När jag själv matar in namn i släktforskningsprogrammet har jag under senare år börjat markera:


Martin Hans-Olof* "Hasse" Bygård
Hilda* Emilia Eriksdotter Merijärvi
Erik "Eirik" Eriksson Merijärvi


"Tilltalsnamn" (swe) and "kutsumanimi" (fin) in spoken or written English? What would you suggest is the proper way of puttin it? As pointed out in the question Google translate suggests "first name" and "pet name" but these two are either often felt misleading ("first name" if it is the second given name? "Pet name" sounds more like a lap dog's name?)

Any good advice?

June Pelo
16-03-16, 18:00
Hasse,

I've noticed this has been discussed on my genealogy program's Facebook page... it seems that other people are asking the same question. My genealogy program asks for given names, prefix, suffix, nickname, and surname. It doesn't use the term first name. Hasse would be entered as your nickname, and I would enter the given name as your birth name of Martin Hans-Olof*. I have noticed that other people in Finland have also used the * to indicate the preferred name, so it makes sense to me. My genealogy program also has the option of using an alternate name, which probably would work out better for you, giving you the option of using Hasse as an alternate name instead of as a nickname.

Öllegård
17-03-16, 00:13
"Pet name" är väl samma sak som "nickname". Det översätts med "smeknamn". Det är ju ofta kortare (el längre) versioner av det formella namnet. Smeknamnet blir oftast tvåstavigt. Johannes blir Johan el Janne. Karl blir Kalle. Elisabeth blir Lisa, Maria blir Maja och Katarina blir Kajsa. Då får man väl skriva: Katarina "Kajsa" Johansdotter.

Men tilltalsnamn är något annat, det är om man har flera förnamn och det anger namnet som används. Så vitt jag ser markeras det ibland med en asterisk, ibland med versaler. Johan Erik* el Johan ERIK. Jag tycker inte man kan säga att Erik är ett nick name/pet name här.

Så här står det i wikipedia:

Tilltalsnamn är det eller de av en persons förnamn som vid sidan av efternamnet används vid tilltal, presentation och omnämnande. https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilltalsnamn

Det verkar som om begreppet "tilltalsnamn" nästan är unikt för svenskan. Det finns bara i franska wikipedia, och det kallas "Prénom usuel". Vad skulle det bli på engelska "first name in use"?

June Pelo
17-03-16, 00:24
If this discussion was in English, you might get some more opinions and suggestions.

Jaska Sarell
17-03-16, 22:12
Turning to my bookshelf...
Prismas svensk-engelska ordbok (Stockholm 1988):
tilltalsnamn -- Christian name normally used
Suomalais-englantilainen suursanakirja (WSOY, Porvoo 1968):
kutsumanimi -- name by which a person is addressed

Thus these dictionaries don't give but explanations what these Swedish and Finnish words mean.

:) Jaska

Hasse
22-03-16, 13:29
#Given names

"Pet name" är väl samma sak som "nickname". Det översätts med "smeknamn". Det är ju ofta kortare (el längre) versioner av det formella namnet. Smeknamnet blir oftast tvåstavigt. Johannes blir Johan el Janne. Karl blir Kalle. Elisabeth blir Lisa, Maria blir Maja och Katarina blir Kajsa. Då får man väl skriva: Katarina "Kajsa" Johansdotter.

Men tilltalsnamn är något annat, det är om man har flera förnamn och det anger namnet som används. Så vitt jag ser markeras det ibland med en asterisk, ibland med versaler. Johan Erik* el Johan ERIK. Jag tycker inte man kan säga att Erik är ett nick name/pet name här.

Så här står det i wikipedia:
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilltalsnamn

Det verkar som om begreppet "tilltalsnamn" nästan är unikt för svenskan. Det finns bara i franska wikipedia, och det kallas "Prénom usuel". Vad skulle det bli på engelska "first name in use"?

Most of us have several given names, I have three. Most of us use the first given name as the official given name used in official communication. Since much of he real life nowadays is connected to official records in a computerized form most database records use the first given name as "the given name".

This is why the border/customs person calls me "Martin" when I enter the US. The first time I was surprised but not anymore.

Last week I got a direct mail advert letter properly addressed with "Martin xxx". Easy for me to sort this letter into the separate pile for old day junk mail.

Yet most ordinary mail arrive with the name I use, "Hasse". Hasse has been in use since I was born. Was used by my parents before I could speak. Then neighbourhood used the name also. I was and is Hasse.

Surprise, surprise. When I had to start attending school in my birth village, on the first day of school when the teacher from Terjärv during the first name call - I didn't recognize my name! The first collision with the official society. Nobody cared if I and the community used a different name than the names on record. Seldom official records have information about which one given name to use of the ones on record or if a diminutive is being used.

In genealogy when using databases and apps to record family, ancestors and friends we have to rely on the Gedcom file definition standard. In this standard we have fields for given names, surnames and a separate field for nickname/s.


NICK, A descriptive or familiar that is used instead of, or in addition to, one's proper name.
GIVN, A given or earned name used for official identification of a person.
NAME, A word or combination of words used to help identify an individual, title, or other item. More than one NAME line should be used for people who were known by multiple names.
NPFX, Text which appears on a name line before the given and surname parts of a name. i.e. ( Lt. Cmndr. ) Joseph /Allen/ jr. In this example Lt. Cmndr. is considered as the name prefix portion.
NSFX, Text which appears on a name line after or behind the given and surname parts of a name. i.e. Lt. Cmndr. Joseph /Allen/ ( jr. ) In this example jr. is considered as the name suffix portion.


Thus only two fields for any kind of given names.

Either we register the given name "in use" with an asterisk if this isn't the first one or enter it in versals. I prefer the asterisk since the versal approach isn't as secure (versals can be replaced with gemenas as a function in the app itself, thus removing the signaled information).

If the person went by a nickname or a diminutive (=shortened form of a name) one has the possibility to

enter the diminutive into apostrophes - "Hasse"
noting the extra name with preceeding "aka" - "Hans-Olof aka Hasse"
entering the extra name into the gedcoms NICK filed. The field is within your genealogy app - hopefully not used for storing something else (for example patronymics)... Accordin to standards it shall contain nick name type info!


The proper way of translating "tilltalsnamn" is in my opinion not really important. The thing important is that we can understand each other, especially when communicating about genealogy.

June Pelo
22-03-16, 16:13
Hasse,

Interesting comments. My genealogy program Roots Magic has a forum on Facebook and recently there have been discussions about this same topic.. people wanting to know the "correct" way to enter names... others are telling them it's a matter of personal preference... It gets rather heated at times because many people consider their family tree as a legal document for all the world to see. I tried to add some comments about the handling of patronymics, umlauts, etc. but it seems that there are very few members who use them.