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Wojtek_W
03-11-17, 22:39
Hello!
I wonder how movement of the members of Orthodox Church in Finland was documented? Any separate Communion Books exist? My ancestors in Finland was Orthodox but few information have been found by me. Orthodox Parish Books are available but I haven't found nothig simmilar to Rippikirjat or Lastenkirjat.

Wojtek

Anteroinen
05-11-17, 13:47
I did some research into this and it seems the best selection of digitized Orthodox sources is available on https://digihakemisto.appspot.com/. According to the sources I pulled up, Orthodox parishes kept what are usually called Communion Books, but they look more like lists of names than anything than anything you come across while researching Lutheran families. They had to convert to using "Head Books" (pääkirja) after 1905, and only at this point did their lists start including information like where they moved and other stuff that Lutheran books were supposed to have kept since 1680s. On occasion the Communion Books do have annotations about the person being in another parish, but this is usually related to them having missed communion.

There is also a set of records called Metrics (metrikkakirjat) which have the most detailed descriptions of an individuals personal history, which were also kept by the parishes.

Further, as with Lutherans, you may turn to tax records, Henkikirjat and other such sources.

Wojtek_W
07-11-17, 20:14
Thanks for info. I've spend plenty of time reviewing Ortodox books based on attached link. The request mentioned in my previous post was caused by lack of the information about movements as well as other important information. Based on additional sources I've found in Vaasa orthodox books details of the movement my grand-grandmother Maria Paulamäki from Lutheran to Ortodox and later marriage with Vassilij (Franciszek)/Franc) Fivek. I've also found that family is no longer mentioned in Vaasa in 1915 year. Anyway to find their next living place I've been supported by scanned newspaper. So I've found in Othodox books of Hanko that family lived here at least till 1917.
But my real goal is to find any trace of daughter of Maria and Vassilij/Franciszek Fiwek. This is my Grandmother Helena Fiwek. None of these books had mentioned about her. In fact I'm looking for any idea how to find any trace of her.

Anteroinen
08-11-17, 00:38
Could it be possible that since she was born before Maria converted Helena is in the Lutheran books, because as a baby she is not considered "of age" to convert or something to that effect? I don't know if this is even possible by the rules of the churches involved, but I can't think of any other explanation off the top of my head.

Wojtek_W
09-11-17, 18:38
Thanks for remark. Exactly this is the idea I'm considering. Anyway I know very little about rules, laws and habits of the Lutherans. AFAIK there is no mention about Helena in Vaasa Lutheran parish. But this info came to me from third, but trustworthy party. So also the question. Assuming that child i.e. Helena, was assigned into Lutheran books, what might happen when parents moved into another part of Finland? Who and how would update book? And how to search such an update?

Anteroinen
09-11-17, 21:12
Well, first thing would be to check if she's even with this family. You could check the henkikirjat for Vaasa or Hanko to see how many children are indicated. The problem with that is that Vaasa and Hanko are big cities and unless you know their address (actually, even if you do) a blind search might be really tedious.

You can search here under Hanko (Hangö stad in the end): https://digihakemisto.appspot.com/index_ay?amnimeke=Uudenmaan+l%C3%A4%C3%A4nin+henki kirjat&sarnimi=Henkikirjat&aynimi=Henkikirja+1915-1915+%28U%3A320%29&ay=2006083&sartun=225866.KA&atun=316316.KA&ay2=202373

Wojtek_W
10-11-17, 22:40
Thanks. Are such a books for Vaasa available on-line as well? Having nothing better so far I"ll commence review of Hanko henkikirjat from the link.
BTW. Fivek is mentioned in Länsi-Uusimaa newspaper but no info about address. https://digi.kansalliskirjasto.fi/sanomalehti/binding/1212231?page=4&ocr=true&term=Fivek

Anteroinen
10-11-17, 23:04
Actually there kind of is an address there! The text says:

"For sale.

Due to us moving away from the city, we're selling

Furniture and household tools

Fivek,
Alkuhuvila."

Alkuhuvila is clearly a name for a particular "villa" in the city (Alkuhuvila means something like "Villa of the Beginning"). Huvila does not necessarily imply a fancy house, but typically a single-family detached house of some sort in any case. Assuming the Fiveks weren't somehow dealing in real-estate or in a position to do organize auctions, this is most likely their address!

Vaasa henkikirjat can be found here: https://digihakemisto.appspot.com/index_sarja?sartun=231859.KA&atun=316544.KA&amnimeke=Vaasan+l%C3%A4%C3%A4nin+henkikirjat&sarnimi=Henkikirjat

Look in the ones that say "Korsholman kihlakunta" and under Nikolaistad, which is the official name of Vaasa under the Russian rule.

Anteroinen
10-11-17, 23:57
I also do not know if you've found these already but here is a notice for the marriage of Wasili Fivek and Maria Paulamäki in 1910.

https://digi.kansalliskirjasto.fi/sanomalehti/binding/1053437?page=1&term=Fiwek

It gives Wasili's profession as "korfmakare" or sausage maker.

_____________________________

Other news articles:

9.9.1913 A Wasili Fivek was found guilty of battery in Vaasa city court.
https://digi.kansalliskirjasto.fi/sanomalehti/binding/816885?page=2&term=Fiveck

18.2.1915 I found a police constable W. Fivek paying taxes in Hanko for 1,500 mark.
https://digi.kansalliskirjasto.fi/sanomalehti/binding/821087?page=2&term=Fivek

10.2.1916 - I found a police constable V. Fivek paying taxes in Hanko for 1,400 mark.
https://digi.kansalliskirjasto.fi/sanomalehti/binding/883729?page=3&term=Fivek

___________________________________________

The papers also mention a sausage maker by the name of Frans Fivek several times. Both in Vaasa and in Hanko. Is this person also a relative?

3.7.1912 a saugagemaker Frans Fivek has been in a fight with a couple of locals:
https://digi.kansalliskirjasto.fi/sanomalehti/binding/783150?page=5&term=Fivek
(This is actually an interesting article, since it tells us that Frans Fivek boasted that they'll "drive Finns and Swedes out of the country and guide the boat himself". The paper seems to be making fun of Fivek and his mate Kossi for saying this, so the source is somewhat questionable. They got into a fight and lost and now someone is getting accused for it and the paper is not happy.)
This is the same story in Finnish 1.7.1912.
https://digi.kansalliskirjasto.fi/sanomalehti/binding/1278128?page=3&term=Fiveck
On 2.7.1912 in Nya Pressen as well:
https://digi.kansalliskirjasto.fi/sanomalehti/binding/1272804?page=1&term=Fiveck
This paper is even more interesting and goes into detail about where they live and some of his personal history. The paper also calls him Wasili Fiveck out of the blue (Frans=Wasili???). The paper also calls for action to not associate with snitches like him.
https://digi.kansalliskirjasto.fi/sanomalehti/binding/1187029?page=2&term=Fiweck
Same story here:
https://digi.kansalliskirjasto.fi/sanomalehti/binding/1177649?page=3&term=Fiweck
Työ on the 4.7.1912 claim the row was because of some woman they saw.
https://digi.kansalliskirjasto.fi/sanomalehti/binding/1323087?page=2&term=Fiweck
This tells us Fivek's friend was fired from his job for going to the police:
https://digi.kansalliskirjasto.fi/sanomalehti/binding/1338293?page=2&term=Fiweck
Several newspapers claim that they actually became boat directors. I thought it was a joke initially, but Pohjalainen is still going on about it 8.7.1912 and even specifies they're probably on the boats current used by Russians from the crown:
https://digi.kansalliskirjasto.fi/sanomalehti/binding/1278244?page=2&term=Fiveck

Really we could have a discussion about only this incident, since this story appeared re-printed in dozens and dozens of newspapers.

25.2.1913 a F. Fivek from Rådhusgatan 47, Vaasa is selling six week old foxterrier puppies:
https://digi.kansalliskirjasto.fi/sanomalehti/binding/1341167?page=4&term=Fivek

2.1.1917 a Frans Fivek has not fetched his parcel from the Hanko post office:
https://digi.kansalliskirjasto.fi/sanomalehti/binding/822003?page=1&term=Fivek

Wojtek_W
11-11-17, 21:08
Thanks. In my opinion all these articles concerns my relative. This is Grandfather of my Father. According to family tradition he was a kind of rogue.

Franciszek Fiwek (this is his christian name form Roman-Catholic baptism) was born on 18-10-1883 r. in Sieradz (now middle of Poland, in that time borderland of Russian Empire - near Prussian border). Because of his character and nature he abandoned the family and became a soldier. He came as a soldier into Finland and after completing his service he become to be citizen. Seems he migrated form Roman-Catholic into Orthodox church and received name Vassilij. This name is present in Orthodox books. Franciszek Fiwek died on 22-10-1928 in Vaasa (?). Franciszek/Vassilij/Franc Fiwek married Maria Aliina Paulamäki on 09-01-1911. She is written as his wife in Orthodox books both in Vaasa as well as in Hanko.

They had a daughter - Helena Fiwek. Because of unknown reasons Helena came into her never seen Polish grandmother in age of sixteen - I'm looking for any traces of Helena in Finland. The only documents in my possession comes from Poland - after 1927. In fact Helena is the main goal of my current researches.

Mention that Franc Fiwek was boat director is absolutely unexpectable to me. It is really worth of research and discussion. These notes are too long and complicated for automatic translation so until now they were not understand by me.

Even information about his role as a policeman in Hanko is strange to me. Are you sure the abbreviation before his name NOT concerns his Polish nationality?

The note concerning parcel left on post office in Hanko as well as note concerning selling furniture and household tools assures Franciszek Fiwek abandoned Hanko about the beginning of 1917. Seems it will be difficult to figure out his next place of life.

His rogue nature is easily visible in the notes from July 1912 about an affray. Seems it was serious fight as it is mentioned in so many newspapers.

Could you please expand a little bit the note "This paper is even more interesting and goes into detail about where they live and some of his personal history. The paper also calls him Wasili Fiveck out of the blue (Frans=Wasili???). The paper also calls for action to not associate with snitches like him."? Seems I've missed it and text is a little bit too complex for automatic translation.

Anteroinen
11-11-17, 23:07
Even information about his role as a policeman in Hanko is strange to me. Are you sure the abbreviation before his name NOT concerns his Polish nationality?

There is no other way to interpret "poliskonst." than a Police Constable. If it was about his Polishness it would be something like "polska" or "polen".


Mention that Franc Fiwek was boat director is absolutely unexpectable to me. It is really worth of research and discussion. These notes are too long and complicated for automatic translation so until now they were not understand by me.

This should be taken with a grain of salt. The original article says that they've become "lots/luotsi" that is specifically "maritime pilot". However, it is said in mockery to insinuate "as if a sausage maker could be a pilot". This is based on the argument they had that preceded the fight they had, so I am not sure if it is true or just a joke. Later in a short article this is said:

"The seamen who have gone on a strike on the pilot boat "Sextant" have been replace by Russians these days, 20 in number. There are still about 15 seamen from the previous crew still on the ship. The informants Fiveck and Korsin are probably on one of the crown ships."

Ilmiantaja here is a really pejorative word for informant, closer to "snitch" in tone. I am not entirely sure if they are still just making fun of Fiveck. One really would have to check.


Could you please expand a little bit the note "This paper is even more interesting and goes into detail about where they live and some of his personal history. The paper also calls him Wasili Fiveck out of the blue (Frans=Wasili???). The paper also calls for action to not associate with snitches like him."? Seems I've missed it and text is a little bit too complex for automatic translation.

I can translate a version of the the two articles that were copied around. From Pohjalainen, 1.7.1912:
https://digi.kansalliskirjasto.fi/sanomalehti/binding/1278128?page=3&term=Fiveck

"How a lèse-majesté is committed.

During the Pentecost here [i.e. in the city the paper is published in] in house number 40 on Koulukatu a group of men [including] the Polish sausagemaker Frans Fiveck, a Russian Kossi (a building superintendent for Hovikoikeuden puistikko 13) [N.B. in later newspapers the name is given as Korsin], a Russian fish merchant and the Finnish photograph enlarger Josef Lunki (from Helsinki?) and the shoemaker Jacob Lund. The Russians threatened that all Finns and Swedes shall be driven out of the country - probably to Sweden - and they, Fiveck and Kossi, shall be the maritime pilots. To that Lund had said that their kind of men could be pilots, since they don't even know the archipelago, and something else. This caused an international fight, with one Finn against four men. Words were shown true with brute force and each fought for the honor of their leaders and their right to be in the country. But eventually it seems that the overpowered won the fight and as a revenge the two first mentioned men ran to the Detective Police and told about the incident. The final act happened inside the walls of the Detective Police Department; a real exhange of diplomatic letters between esteemed officials started - and a lèse-majesté.

Nowadays it is said Fiveck and Kossi have become maritime pilots: truly proper pilots - a sausagemaker and a superintendent!"

From Työmies 3.7.1912:
https://digi.kansalliskirjasto.fi/sanomalehti/binding/1187029?page=2&term=Fiweck

"Beware the informants!

Let us remember how in Vaasa some time ago a national accusation [valtiollinen ilminanto, I don't really know what the correct legal term is, suffice to say it sounds important and like it goes to the state level for some reason] against the shoemaker Jacob Lund, due to which Lund was held imprisoned for a week and the research files were sent to the Senate, which it be solved by His Majesty, if Lund should be punished for lèse-majesté. Lund must have while fighting drunk with a couple of Russians said something insulting against the ruler and the government.

The people who told on Lund are the building superintendent Iwan Korsin and the temporary workman Frans Fiweck.

The first has served in the Russian military in Vaasa and stayed there after finishing his service. Nowadays he is the superintendent in house number 13 in Hovioikeuden puistikko owned by I. Myntti, A. Hautala et al. In that house there are for example the internal offices of Suomen Pankki (Finland's Bank) and Kansallis-Osake-Pankki (National-Share-Bank). He lives in the same house and is paid 35 markka per month for his service.

The latter Wasili Fiweck has also stayed in Vaasa having finished his service in the Russian army. Has been doing all sorts of miscellaneous work, nowadays probably being a total layabout. Lives in house number 40 of Koulukatu. He is, like the former, about 30 years of age.

According to what is said, the accusation against Lund was made, in addition to other things, as an act of revenge for the row that happened between then in the house of some women. This is naturally doesn't make the thing any prettier, since the act is in all aspects quite treacherous.

The public must be careful to not to give in and talk at all with these sort of people, because even carelessly said even totally meaningless words can such creatures twist into stories, which can lead to - if nothing else - nasty, pointless fights. - Stay away from informants!"

This last one is less informative, but also circulated, so I'll translate it as well. From Työ, 4.7.1912:
https://digi.kansalliskirjasto.fi/sanomalehti/binding/1323087?page=2&term=Fiweck

"Accusations in Vaasa.

As has been told before, some time before in Vaasa accusations against the shoemaker Jacob Lund for lèse-majesté were made. The informants were the superintendent Iwan Korsin and the temporary worker Frans Fiveck, according to "Wapaa Sana" [a newspaper], both of whom and former Russian soldiers living in Vaasa. Lund had been drinking with the Russians and finally got into a fight due to some women. For this the Russians gave Lund up to the police."

Vapaa Sana, 5.7.1912 adds:
https://digi.kansalliskirjasto.fi/sanomalehti/binding/1338293?page=2&term=Fiweck

"The informants Korsin and Fiveck have, it is said, become maritime pilots. Korsin was fired from his position as the building superintendent immediately after his employers found out what he had done."

The public opinion really seems to have been against them. This issue concerning a fight between Lund and your greatgrandfather was apparently decided on by not only the Finnish senate, but by the Tsar himself! I was unable to find documents in the digitized portion of the Senate's archives, unfortunately. I think this story is definitely worth checking out.

Wojtek_W
13-11-17, 20:17
Thank you a lot for all the translations and effort. It is really impressive!

The whole story looks typical. A few men, some of vodka, a woman (women?), a quarrel, a scuffle, a revenge....


Ilmiantaja here is a really pejorative word for informant, closer to "snitch" in tone.

I guess "snitch" is correct word. I do understand the situation and consequences. Note, big part of Poland of that time was under Russian government. Very similar situations had occurred daily, the only difference was nationality of the disputants/fighters. Consequences because of lèse-majesté in Poland of that time was much more painful as well as quicker enforced. There was no Senate, but Russian Gubernator and Russian court https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veikselin_aluepiiri

In most cases such an accusation would result exile into Siberia.

Reading the whole story address of Frans Fiveck was written i.e.
Lives in house number 40 of Koulukatu. Do you expect it is recognizable address?

Anteroinen
13-11-17, 21:01
Reading the whole story address of Frans Fiveck was written i.e. Do you expect it is recognizable address?

I think it is Skolhusgatan 40 in Swedish (meaning School Street), but I couldn't find Wasili Fivek in the henkikirjat there. I guess he moved there after 1910 and probably had to move away after getting the mantle of a snitch in 1912.

1910: https://digihakemisto.appspot.com/edit?kuid=21628080&kuvanumero=979&ay=1958062&sartun=231859.KA&atun=316544.KA&amnimeke=Vaasan+l%C3%A4%C3%A4nin+henkikirjat&sarnimi=Henkikirjat&aynimi=Henkikirja+1910-1910+%28Va%3A283%29&ay2=205221
1915: https://digihakemisto.appspot.com/edit?kuid=21659754&kuvanumero=487&ay=1958176&sartun=231859.KA&atun=316544.KA&amnimeke=Vaasan+l%C3%A4%C3%A4nin+henkikirjat&sarnimi=Henkikirjat&aynimi=Henkikirja+1915-1915+%28Va%3A324%29&ay2=205322

Rådhusgatan 47 (where he was mentioned selling puppies in 1913) also yields no results:
1910: https://digihakemisto.appspot.com/edit?kuid=21628117&kuvanumero=1016&ay=1958062&sartun=231859.KA&atun=316544.KA&amnimeke=Vaasan+l%C3%A4%C3%A4nin+henkikirjat&sarnimi=Henkikirjat&aynimi=Henkikirja+1910-1910+%28Va%3A283%29&ay2=205221
1915: https://digihakemisto.appspot.com/edit?kuid=21659808&kuvanumero=541&ay=1958176&sartun=231859.KA&atun=316544.KA&amnimeke=Vaasan+l%C3%A4%C3%A4nin+henkikirjat&sarnimi=Henkikirjat&aynimi=Henkikirja+1915-1915+%28Va%3A324%29&ay2=205322

Also, I hope you noticed how the fighting apparently happened in Wasili Fivek's house!

Wojtek_W
14-11-17, 20:02
Seems Franc Fivek lived in Vaasa till 1914. Franc/Vassilij and Maria are mentioned:

In Vassa in 1912, 1913 and 1914:
https://digihakemisto.appspot.com/edit?kuid=5117933&kuvanumero=37&ay=1145527&sartun=168847.KA&atun=242370.KA&amnimeke=Vaasan+ortodoksisen+seurakunnan+arkisto&sarnimi=Rippikirjat+ja+ehtoollisella+k%C3%A4yneide n+luettelot&aynimi=Rippikirja+1911-1913+%28I+Aa%3A6%29&ay2=92937 pos. 28 -(man no 50) Vassilij Adamov Fiwek and his wife (woman no 34) Maria Tomasova

https://digihakemisto.appspot.com/edit?kuid=5118003&kuvanumero=71&ay=1145527&sartun=168847.KA&atun=242370.KA&amnimeke=Vaasan+ortodoksisen+seurakunnan+arkisto&sarnimi=Rippikirjat+ja+ehtoollisella+k%C3%A4yneide n+luettelot&aynimi=Rippikirja+1911-1913+%28I+Aa%3A6%29&ay2=92937 poz 41 (56 for man, 48 for woman)
http://en.digihakemisto.appspot.com/edit?kuid=5118042&kuvanumero=6&ay=1145538&sartun=168847.KA&atun=242370.KA&amnimeke=Vaasan+ortodoksisen+seurakunnan+arkisto&sarnimi=Rippikirjat+ja+ehtoollisella+k%C3%A4yneide n+luettelot&aynimi=Rippikirjat+1914-1916+%28I+Aa%3A7%29&ay2=92938 pos. 39 (74 for man, 47 for woman)

and in Hanko in 1916:

https://digihakemisto.appspot.com/edit?kuid=4857644&kuvanumero=272&ay=552667&sartun=127721.KA&atun=241963.KA&amnimeke=Hangon+ortodoksisen+seurakunnan+arkisto&sarnimi=Rippi-+ja+p%C3%A4%C3%A4kirjat&aynimi=Rippikirjat+1896-1916+%28I+Aa%3A1%29&ay2=90753 pos. 19 for man, 22 for woman)

Unfortunately no sign about child. Looking deeper into these books you can find that children are mentioned. But not for this case.
This is what I'm finding strange and mysterious.

No address is mentioned as well so any other searches are mind blindly.