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View Full Version : Matts Herman Mattsson b 1868-02-17 Pedersöre, Ytterpurmo, nr 16 Pellis



linah
14-11-17, 18:14
I am trying to find out if this person, Matts Herman Mattsson b 17 Feb 1868, is the same person as Herman Matson who died in 8 Apr 1923, Pennsylvania, USA. (Wife Mary Jarvi) Herman Matson is in the Census 1900, North Dakota, and it states that he has been in the US for 8 years. There are several trees at ancestry with Herman Matson and his family, but no parents to him.

Matts Herman Mattsson went to America in 15 Jan 1887. (He was living in Pedersöre, Forsby, nr 16 Pellis, p 200) I am not able to find his departure from Finland, nor his arrival to the US. Does anyone have a clue?

Lina

BessemerFinn
14-11-17, 21:39
probably not...the death certificate for Herman Matson shows a different birth date and different parents...

linah
14-11-17, 22:30
Oh, do you believe the death certificate is correct? I have not been able to find a Herman born that date in Finland. It looks like it was his 16 year old son, who was the informant to the certificate.

BessemerFinn
14-11-17, 23:09
maybe a rush to judgement on my part...certainly worth another look...

Anteroinen
14-11-17, 23:57
Which end of the chain have you found out for sure? Are you working back into Finland from America or the other way around. I am just confused how you've connected these two families in the first place?

Anyway, to those interested, looking at the life of Matts Herman Mattsson looks like this:

Birth in Pedersöre, Ytterpurmo, Pellis, 17.2.1868, baptized 18.2.1868 (parents Matts Mattsson, Maja Lena Simonsdotter):
http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/sivut/jasenille/paikat.php?bid=24172&pnum=50

Pedersöre, Ytterpurmo, Pellis, Matts Mattsson:
1868-1870 - http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/sivut/jasenille/paikat.php?bid=19757&pnum=615
1871-1880 - http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/sivut/jasenille/paikat.php?bid=19758&pnum=647
1881-1887 - http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/sivut/jasenille/paikat.php?bid=19759&pnum=194

On the last communion book it says he's moved to America 15.1.1887. But there's no record of this in the register of moved persons. There's also the issue of the marking of the communion from 23.1.1887, so he didn't move immediately after getting the testament of character. In addition there is the marking for him having missed communion without a good excuse.

This could well be the same person: the year is close, the mother's name is Maja Lena and she died when Matts Herman was young, so he wouldn't have that many stories to tell about her in all likelyhood. 17.2 --> 19.7 is a common enough clerical error. Most Finns didn't know their exact age or date of birth those days anyway. For a Finn born in the 1860s to have Mattsson as a surname is really uncommon, so the name of the father is likely in error on the form. It was definitely common in some areas to use the child's second name as well. Still, you really need more than this. There's way too much room for error here.

linah
15-11-17, 01:06
I am working from America to Finland. The family (my cousin´s) in America doesn´t know anything for sure about Herman Matson, except for his name in America and his marriage to their grandma. Herman Matson´s son thought that he maybe was born in Karstula, so I tried there, but found nothing.

His birthyear is very different in the sources. Census 1900: birth Aug 1869, census 1906: b 1860, census 1915: b 1878, census 1920: b abt 1866, death cert. in 1923: b 19 Jul 1866, Find a Grave, the headstone for Mattsson Family: b 1862. (His wife´s dates are correct at the headstone.) Very confusing.

I had almost given up, but wanted to try again, so I searched Hiski for child: Herman, father: Matts, mother Lena, the years 1866-1869. I got 7 Herman - and this is the only one I found noted as going to America, maybe. So, I tried to track him to America, but couldn´t. I know it is very thin, but it is all I have, for the moment. I need proof. Or something.

Karen Norwillo
15-11-17, 15:54
Here's a closeup of his birth. He was indeed born in Pedersöre as you said. If he was born Matts Herman, his birth record wouldn't be found as Herman. He may have used Herman to distinguish himself from his father as was often the case. Also mother Maja Lena may have done the same. There is a Matt Mattsson from Finland c1867 arriving June 25, 1888 on the ship Alaska to New York. Unfortunately no destination on these old records.

Jaska Sarell
15-11-17, 17:35
Is there any knowledge about the original language he used? Pedersöre was and still mainly is Swedish speaking community, while Karstula is in the Finnish speaking area.
Also note, that HisKi doesn't extend far enough for many parishes.

:) Jaska

Anteroinen
15-11-17, 19:43
As can be seen here, this is especially a case for all the parishes near Karstula, so even if that was just one of the parishes he lived in, you wouldn't likely find his birth via HisKi.

http://hiski.genealogia.fi/hiski/8h4ws3?fi+0173,0005,0213,0386,0467,0500

linah
15-11-17, 20:26
Thank you! It sounds a bit promising. 1888 to New York. The family has only heard him called Herman Mattson. Nothing else. So, it is a mystery, so far.

linah
15-11-17, 20:29
Jaska: The question about which language he was speaking is really important. I will ask my cousin.

Lina : )

linah
15-11-17, 21:16
Anteroinen: "there is the marking for him having missed communion without a good excuse" - What does that marking look like?

Anteroinen
15-11-17, 22:27
Anteroinen: "there is the marking for him having missed communion without a good excuse" - What does that marking look like?

It is that little text on his line that says "oförfallolöst uteblifven".

linah
16-11-17, 17:45
Thank you so much! >feeling stupid< I am Swedish, but I thought it was in Finnish.

Karen Norwillo
16-11-17, 23:43
Do you know the names of his children? Many named their children after family members. Might be a clue if names are similar. Matts Herman's siblings were Kaisa Lovisa, Petter Anders, Anna Sofia, Maria Charlotta , Niklas and Johan Alfrid. Just a thought.
Karen

linah
17-11-17, 01:33
Thank you! A good reminder! I will check that. I have expanded my search to , at the moment, 7 Herman Mattsson´s. I am waiting for an answer of which language he was speaking. Grateful for all ideas.
Lina