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ck76
11-01-05, 22:43
I posted the following in a different thread figuring I'd look online to find a way to translate it but now after searching for well over an hour I've decided the only way I'm going to know what this says is to break down and "beg" someone here for translation help. :( If anyone here is able to help I'd greatly appreciate it

Oletpa saanut arvokkaan muiston isästäsi. Hänen runonsa kuvakieli heijastaa satuttavasti viime aikojakin, miellyttävän lomailun vaihtumista painajaiseksi.



Chris siis kaipaa lisätietoja suvustaan. Hänen mainitsemansa Benjamin löytyy Karstulasta:



Benjam s. 14.2.1859, kastettu 22.2.1859 (isä Kivijärvi talollisen poika Heikki Matinpoika (Henrik Mattss.), äiti Anna Kaisa Antintytär (And:dr), 29 v) Karstula (HisKi Karstula sl).



Benjaminin vaimo Lisa Greta on syntynyt Kaustisella, kuten Chris mainitsee:



Lisa Greta s. 18.1.1855, kastettu 21.1.1855 (isä talollinen Joonas (Jonas) Känsäkangas, äiti Leena (Lena), 37 v) Kaustinen (HisKi Kaustinen sl).



Benjamille ja Lisa Gretalle en löydä muita lapsia. Lisa Gretalla on Kaustisella sisaruksia ainakin seuraavat:



Johannes s. 14.9.1844, kastettu 15.9.1844 (isä talollinen Joonas Juhanpoika (Jonas Joh:s.) Känsäkangas, äiti Leena (Lena), 27 v) Kaustinen (HisKi Kaustinen sl).

Anders s. 22.6.1846, kastettu 24.6.1846 (isä talollinen Jonas Joh:s. Känsäkangas, äiti Helena, 29 v) Kaustinen (HisKi Kaustinen sl).

Maria s. 22.4.1849, kastettu 24.4.1849 (isä talollinen Jonas Joh:s. Känsäkangas, äiti Lena, 32 v) Kaustinen (HisKi Kaustinen sl).

Matts s. 18.5.1852, kastettu 20.5.1852 (isä talollinen Jonas Henr:s. Känsäkangas, äiti Lena, 30 v; isän patronyyni ja äidin ikä väärät, AJ) Kaustinen (HisKi Kaustinen sl).

Lena Caisa s. 18.3.1860, kastettu 21.3.1860 (isä talollinen Jonas Joh:s. Känsäkangas, äiti Lena, 43 v) Kaustinen (HisKi Kaustinen sl), kuoli pienenä (HisKi Kaustinen sl).



Lasten vanhemmat, talollisen poika Jonas Joh:s. Virkkala ja talontytär Helena Juhantytär Hotakainen Kokkolan msrk:sta Ylivetelistä vihittiin Kaustisella:



Vihitty: 15.10.1843 Kaustinen (Bd.s. Jonas Joh.s. Wirkala och Bd.Dr:u Helena Joh.dr. Hotakainen G.Garleby M.k.f. Öfv. vetil)(HisKi Kaustinen vih.l.).:confused: :confused:

Jaska Sarell
11-01-05, 23:05
I hope this will do:

Oletpa saanut arvokkaan muiston isästäsi. Hänen runonsa kuvakieli heijastaa satuttavasti viime aikojakin, miellyttävän lomailun vaihtumista painajaiseksi.
You have received a valuable memory of your father. The imagery of his poem also hurtingly reflects latest times, when a pleasant vacation turned to nightmare

Chris siis kaipaa lisätietoja suvustaan. Hänen mainitsemansa Benjamin löytyy Karstulasta:
So Chris wants more information about his family. Benjamin that he mentions can be found in Karstula:

Benjam s. 14.2.1859, kastettu 22.2.1859 (isä Kivijärvi talollisen poika Heikki Matinpoika (Henrik Mattss.), äiti Anna Kaisa Antintytär (And:dr), 29 v) Karstula (HisKi Karstula sl).
Benjam b. 14.2.1859, christened 22.2.1859 (father Kivijärvi farmer's son Heikki Matinpoika (Henrik Mattss.), mother Anna Kaisa Antintytär (And:dr), 29 y) Karstula

Benjaminin vaimo Lisa Greta on syntynyt Kaustisella, kuten Chris mainitsee:
Benjamin's wife Lisa Greta is born in Kaustinen, as Chris mentions:

Lisa Greta s. 18.1.1855, kastettu 21.1.1855 (isä talollinen Joonas (Jonas) Känsäkangas, äiti Leena (Lena), 37 v) Kaustinen (HisKi Kaustinen sl).
Lisa Greta b. 18.1.1855, christened 21.1.1855 (father farmer Joonas (Jonas) Känsäkangas, mother Leena (Lena), 37 y) Kaustinen

Benjamille ja Lisa Gretalle en löydä muita lapsia. Lisa Gretalla on Kaustisella sisaruksia ainakin seuraavat:
I cannot find other children for Benjam and Lisa Greta. Lisa Greta has at least following sibblings in Kaustinen:

Johannes s. 14.9.1844, kastettu 15.9.1844 (isä talollinen Joonas Juhanpoika (Jonas Joh:s.) Känsäkangas, äiti Leena (Lena), 27 v) Kaustinen (HisKi Kaustinen sl).
Johannes ...

Anders s. 22.6.1846, kastettu 24.6.1846 (isä talollinen Jonas Joh:s. Känsäkangas, äiti Helena, 29 v) Kaustinen (HisKi Kaustinen sl).
Anders ...

Maria s. 22.4.1849, kastettu 24.4.1849 (isä talollinen Jonas Joh:s. Känsäkangas, äiti Lena, 32 v) Kaustinen (HisKi Kaustinen sl).
Maria ...

Matts s. 18.5.1852, kastettu 20.5.1852 (isä talollinen Jonas Henr:s. Känsäkangas, äiti Lena, 30 v; isän patronyyni ja äidin ikä väärät, AJ) Kaustinen (HisKi Kaustinen sl).
Matts ... , wrong patronymicon for father, wrong age for mother, AJ

Lena Caisa s. 18.3.1860, kastettu 21.3.1860 (isä talollinen Jonas Joh:s. Känsäkangas, äiti Lena, 43 v) Kaustinen (HisKi Kaustinen sl), kuoli pienenä (HisKi Kaustinen sl).
Lena Caisa ..., died as a child

Lasten vanhemmat, talollisen poika Jonas Joh:s. Virkkala ja talontytär Helena Juhantytär Hotakainen Kokkolan msrk:sta Ylivetelistä vihittiin Kaustisella:
Parents of children, farmer's son Jonas Joh:s. Virkkala and farmer's daughter Helena Juhantytär Hotakainen from Karleby Övervetil was married in Kaustinen:

Vihitty: 15.10.1843 Kaustinen (Bd.s. Jonas Joh.s. Wirkala och Bd.Dr:u Helena Joh.dr. Hotakainen G.Garleby M.k.f. Öfv. vetil)(HisKi Kaustinen vih.l.).
Married: 15.10.1843 ...

Births and marriage from HisKi database

:) Jaska

ck76
11-01-05, 23:15
Thanks Jaska!

That is very helpful - the only parts I still don't quite understand are:

father Kivijärvi farmer's son Heikki Matinpoika (Henrik Mattss.) - this is for Benjamin's father I assume but what is the name then? I think it means he was a farmer at Kivijarvi? If Heikki Matinpoika is the name what does the (Henrik Mattss) mean?

Also, the very last line is about a marriage in 1843: Bd.s. Jonas Joh.s. Wirkala och Bd.Dr:u Helena Joh.dr. Hotakainen G.Garleby M.k.f. Öfv. vetil)(HisKi Kaustinen vih.l.). - I don't follow who the marriage is for......

If I'm going to do this Finnish genealogy I better get myself a good dictionary ;) It's too bad I took Spanish in high school!

kpaavola
12-01-05, 01:05
I might be able to help answer these:

father Kivijärvi farmer's son Heikki Matinpoika (Henrik Mattss.) - this is for Benjamin's father I assume but what is the name then?
Kivijärvi is the name of the farm. If you follow the same naming convention that I do, based on this info only, I would enter his name into my files as Heikki Matinpoika Kivijärvi. I use the farm name as a surname. Actually this is the Finnish format. I've become more accustomed to the Swedish spellings which are the names in parentheses: Henrik Mattsson Kivijärvi.

1843: Bd.s. Jonas Joh.s. Wirkala och Bd.Dr:u Helena Joh.dr. Hotakainen
The marriage is between "farmer's son (Bd.s.)" Jonas Johansson Wirkala and(och) "farmer's daughter(Bd.Dr)" Helena Johansdotter Hotakainen

A website that might be very beneficial for you to review is David Saari's. He explains how the farm name/surname and naming pattern in general works. There are also valuable links on his website that will help you become more familiar with data that appears in these records.

http://members.aol.com/DSSaari/

ck76
12-01-05, 04:02
Thank you! The first part of your explanation makes sense to me - one of my distant cousins has a family tree that lists the family name as Kivijärvi.

I'm still not following the marriage - it has the last names Wirkala and Hotakainen
which don't fit at all into the Kiviniemi, Kivijärvi, or Kansakangas.......does it make sense to you and I'm just missing something or is there something unrelated that got snuck into the info given to me?

Also, thanks for the link - it looks like it has a lot of helpful stuff in it. :D

kpaavola
12-01-05, 04:33
Had to go back and look at all that data but it makes sense now. Benjamin's wife was Lisa Greta. From above:

Lisa Greta b. 18.1.1855, christened 21.1.1855 (father farmer Joonas (Jonas) Känsäkangas, mother Leena (Lena), 37 y) Kaustinen

The marriage record you're asking about is the marriage record for the parents of this Lisa Greta.

So she's the wife of Kivijärvi.

Hope that helps,

ck76
12-01-05, 04:59
Based on the first names that makes sense except it lists Lisa Greta's father as Jonas Wirkala for the marriage but in the records as the father of the children he's listed as Känsäkangas????????

kpaavola
12-01-05, 05:06
I haven't looked at David Saari's site in a while but I think he explains how the farm name/surnames works. They really aren't surnames but rather simply farm names. When they moved from farm to farm they "assumed" the farm name as their last name. At least in the context of how we think about surnames. They didn't really use them in the same manner as we do today. I've had ancestors who lived on 4 or 5 different farms and each record I found them they had different "surnames". But really they're just farm names.

So I wouldn't be too thrown off by the last names. When they were married he was living on one farm but when Lisa Greta was born they were living on a different farm. The records will always list the families as they lived on a particular farm. Some of the farms were huge and had many families living and working the farm.

There are some exceptions to this "rule" particularly in certain parts of Finland and soldiers as well. As you become more familiar with the records, it will not seem so strange. I can only recommend that you read, read, read. Then you'll become quite the expert with the various naming conventions! ;)

ck76
12-01-05, 05:09
That works for me......I've been spending my evenings reading different websites about this trying to make sense of it all. Everyone's help has been so appreciated!

How do you handle the surnames in your family file if they were constantly changing? Do you just put the father's surname as the surname the children have?

kpaavola
12-01-05, 05:16
Normally what I do is use hyphenated last names. I always try to use the birth farm name as the first last-name, then add to that as the person moved around. Of course I don't get carried away but usually limit it to 2 or 3 at the most. The last last-name would be the farm name when they died.

Others do it in other formats like maybe the reverse of what I do. Still others don't use hyphens. I like to use hyphens since my program recognizes the first last-name and alphabetizes accordingly. It just makes it easier for me to find people in my index.

The biggest suggestion I can offer would be to decide on one way and then remain consistent. I still have inconsistencies in my files and I really should go back and fix them. But that's a rainy day project and in Florida we don't have too many of those. At least not like we did in Michigan. ;)

ck76
12-01-05, 05:20
Another good suggestion. Since I'm just starting the research of my Finnish ancestors, it's a good time to do it right now instead of having to wait for that rainy day (yes, we get many more here - but now it's the snowy days) ;)

ck76
12-01-05, 14:32
If anyone would be so kind I could use a translation on this. The girl that sent the original info sent this also - I believe she's sending me the email address to contact a Känsäkangas in Finland but don't want to presume anything!

Yritin turhaan etsiä Siirtolaisrekisteristä tietoja Chrisin sukulaisista.
Heidän on täytynyt lähteä jo 1880- tai 1890-luvulla, joilta vuosikymmeniltä
tietoja ei löydy. Kaustisella toimii Köyhäjoen kylätoimikunta, jonka
puheenjohtaja on Pauli Känsäkangas:
http://www.kase.fi/kylat/kaustinen/Kjoki/kylatoiminta.php . Ja sivun
valokuvissa on pari muuta Känsäkangasta. Siinä Chrisille oljenkorsi :)

Saman tien etsin Siirtolaisrekisteristä myös omien sukulaistemme tietoja ja
löysinkin eKortissa mainitsemani tiedot Maria Kaisasta ja Väinö Nybergistä. Sen
verran Iisakki-kirjassa on heidän kohallaan virheellistä tietoa, että Sompin
Tyyne muisteli Juho Nikolain luvanneen hankkia sisarelleen Maria Kaisalle
(Maija) työpaikan Monessenista. Amerikkaan menoajoista päätellen asia oli
toisinpäin, ja olihan Maija Jussin isosisko.

Jaska Sarell
12-01-05, 15:21
Here's a quick translation:
I tried in vain to search the Immigration Register for information on Chris relatives. They must have left already in 1880's or 1890's - no information available for those decades. There's a Köyhäjoki village committee in Kaustinen, its chairman is Pauli Känsäkangas: http://www.kase.fi/kylat/kaustinen/Kjoki/kylatoiminta.php . Some other Känsäkangas can be found in the photos in that site. There's a straw for Chris to clutch at.

At the same I searched the Immigration Register also for our own relatives and found info of Maria Kaisa and Väinö Nyberg as I told in the eCard. There's som false information in the Iisakki book, where Tyyne Somppi recalls that Juho Nikolai promised to find a job for Maria Kaisa (Maija) in Monessen. Assuming from dates of emigration to America it's the other way round, and indeed Maija was Jussi's big sister.


:) Jaska

ck76
12-01-05, 15:24
Thanks Jaska - I really appreciate that! She is right - I believe my ancestors had left Finland around 1890 or a little before. I'll have to email the person she references and hope he knows English!

Jaska Sarell
12-01-05, 15:31
Originally posted by ck76
... and hope he knows English!
If he doesn't, he surely has someone under 40 years or so, who certainly does :cool:

:) Jaska