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ck76
17-01-05, 02:18
I've searched everywhere in the parish records online and can't find the death dates for Benjamin Henriksson Kiviniemi and his wife Lisa Greta or for their parents Jonas Virkkala-Kansakangas and his wife Helena Johansdotter Hotakainen (Lisa Greta's parents) or Henrik Mattson Kivijarvi and Anna Kaisa Andersdotter Antintytar. (The info for these are in my previous "Kiviniemi" post)

My dilemma is that I've come across a picture of a woman who is identified as my great great grandmother Hilma Burke's grandmother so it's either Helena Hotakainen or Anna Kaisa Antintytar - if I knew when they died perhaps I could place a name to the picture.

Anyone have any suggestions other than the parish records?

granskare
17-01-05, 04:44
Hi ck,

Your other posting does not give us anything about where they lived or if they emigrated to USA. June mentioned Michigan but perhaps that didn't fit this group of people.

Chuck

ck76
17-01-05, 04:58
Chuck - I apologize - I didn't want to repost all the information again since I just posted it a few days ago in a different thread but I can see where it would cause confusion. Here is the information that I have regarding them - to my knowledge they did not leave Finland: I'm looking for any death dates of Benjamin and Lisa Greta or their parents listed directly below.

Benjam s. 14.2.1859, kastettu 22.2.1859 (isä Kivijärvi talollisen poika Heikki Matinpoika (Henrik Mattss.), äiti Anna Kaisa Antintytär (And:dr), 29 v) Karstula (HisKi Karstula sl).
Benjam b.14th Feb 1859, baptized 22nd Feb 1859 (father farmer´s son Heikki Matinpoika (Henrik Mattss.) from Kivijärvi, mother Anna Kaisa Antintytär (And:dr), 29 y Karstula (Hiski Karstula christened)

Benjaminin vaimo Lisa Greta on syntynyt Kaustisella, kuten Chris mainitsee:
Benjamin´s wife Lisa Greta was born in Kaustinen, just as Chris mentions:

Lisa Greta s. 18.1.1855, kastettu 21.1.1855 (isä talollinen Joonas (Jonas) Känsäkangas, äiti Leena (Lena), 37 v) Kaustinen (HisKi Kaustinen sl).
Lisa Greta b.18th Jan 1855, baptized 21st Jan 1855 (father farmer Joonas (Jonas) Känsäkangas, mother Leena (Lena), 37 y Kaustinen (Hiski Kaustinen christened)

Benjamille ja Lisa Gretalle en löydä muita lapsia. Lisa Gretalla on Kaustisella sisaruksia ainakin seuraavat:
I can´t find more children for Benjamin and Lisa Greta. Lisa Greta has at least the following siblings in Kaustinen:

Johannes s. 14.9.1844, kastettu 15.9.1844 (isä talollinen Joonas Juhanpoika (Jonas Joh:s.) Känsäkangas, äiti Leena (Lena), 27 v) Kaustinen (HisKi Kaustinen sl).
Johannes b.14th Sept 1844, baptized 15th Sept 1844 (father farmer Joonas Juhanpoika (Jonas Joh:s. ) Känsäkangas, mother Leena (Lena) 27 y, Kaustinen (Hiski Kaustinen christened)

Anders s. 22.6.1846, kastettu 24.6.1846 (isä talollinen Jonas Joh:s. Känsäkangas, äiti Helena, 29 v) Kaustinen (HisKi Kaustinen sl).
Anders b.22nd June 1846, baptized 24th June 1846 (father farmer Joonas Joh:s. Känsäkangas, mother Helena, 29y) Kaustinen (Hiski Kaustinen christened)

Maria s. 22.4.1849, kastettu 24.4.1849 (isä talollinen Jonas Joh:s. Känsäkangas, äiti Lena, 32 v) Kaustinen (HisKi Kaustinen sl).
Maria b. 22nd Apr 1849, baptized 24th Apr 1849 (father farmer Jonas Joh:s Känsäkangas, mother Lena, 32 y), Kaustinen (Hiski Kaustinen christened)

Matts s. 18.5.1852, kastettu 20.5.1852 (isä talollinen Jonas Henr:s. Känsäkangas, äiti Lena, 30 v; isän patronyyni ja äidin ikä väärät, AJ) Kaustinen (HisKi Kaustinen sl).
Matts b.18th May 1852, baptized 20th May 1852 (father farmer Jonas Henr:s. Känsäkangas, mother Lena, 30y; father´s patronyme and mothers age are incorrect AJ) Kaustinen (Hiski Kaustinen christened)

Lena Caisa s. 18.3.1860, kastettu 21.3.1860 (isä talollinen Jonas Joh:s. Känsäkangas, äiti Lena, 43 v) Kaustinen (HisKi Kaustinen sl), kuoli pienenä (HisKi Kaustinen sl).
Lena Caisa b. 18th March 1860, baptized 21st March 1860 (father farmer Jonas Joh:s Känsäkangas, mother Lena, 43 y)Kaustinen (Hiski Kaustinen, christened ) died as an infant (Hiski Kaustinen christened).

Lasten vanhemmat, talollisen poika Jonas Joh:s. Virkkala ja talontytär Helena Juhantytär Hotakainen Kokkolan msrk:sta Ylivetelistä vihittiin Kaustisella:
The parents of the children, farmer´s son Jonas Joh:s. Virkkala and farmer´s daughter Helena Juhantytär Hotakainen from Kokkola country parish, Yliveteli, were wed in Kaustinen:

Vihitty: 15.10.1843 Kaustinen (Bd.s. Jonas Joh.s. Wirkala och Bd.Dr:u Helena Joh.dr. Hotakainen G.Garleby M.k.f. Öfv. vetil)(HisKi Kaustinen vih.l.).
Marriage: 15h Oct 1843 Kaustinen (Farmer´s son Jonas Joh.s Wirkala and Farmer´s daughter Helena Joh.dr Hotakainen G.Karleby M.k.f. Öfv. vetil (Gamla Karleby Öfver vetil)

granskare
17-01-05, 05:28
to my knowledge they did not leave Finland:

So you are interested in a group that did not leave Finland and you know about the people who did come to America.

Thanks for clearing it up:)

edit to fix spelling error.

Chuck

Hasse
17-01-05, 08:09
If the prople didn't emigrate I guess you have to follow what happens to the couple using the communion book micro films and in this way see in which parish they live when the microfilms end. After that you probably will get the information about their death dates from the parish in question by sending them a request to search for the person in the newer material that is not microfilmed.

The clerks in the parish office however will charge you for this information according to how much used.

Good hunting!

June Pelo
17-01-05, 23:52
According to the Caino-Torp book, Jonas Johansson Wirkkala-Känsäkangas died 4 May 1868 - no place given. He and Helena Johansdotter Hotakainen were married 15 Oct 1843 in Kaustby. Helena was born 6 Jul 1817 in Kaustby. The ancestors of both Helena and Jonas are included in the Caino-Torp book.

June

ck76
18-01-05, 00:02
June,

What is this Caino-Torp book that you're referring to? I am now networked with 4 different cousins researching this line and nobody has any information beyond Jonas and Helena......

I'm now wondering if the entire family emigrated to Wisconsin (including Helena) sometime after Jonas' death. I'm going to have to place a call to Ashland WI and see if they have any of these names (or anything close to them) in their databases. I would guess it's more likely this picture survived because it was taken here in the states rather than believing it made the crossing?

June Pelo
18-01-05, 01:44
In 1993 a work group was formed to search the origins and descendants of two old homesteads in Vetil: Caino and Torp. Their investigation extended to the 1800s. They had too much data to include in one book, so 1800 was the cut-off date. There are articles in the book about these families and also tables covering the period 1490-1799. There are many descendants of these families in the US as well as in Finland. I know that many Finlander members are linked to these families - and there are many people who aren't aware they link to these families. Since Jonas and Helena were born after 1800 their children aren't included in the book, so you may have to deal with the parish office for more info.

June

granskare
18-01-05, 03:17
http://www.genealogia.fi/emi/emi3de.htm

This has a list of burials of Finnish people so maybe it might yield something for you.
-
WISCONSIN

* Ashland
o Föreningen Norden, Membership List, Ashland, Ashland County.
* Oulu
o Burial Places and Dates of Deaths of Hope Lutheran Church, Oulu Township, Bayfield County.
o Church Register of Finnish Evangelical Church, Oulu Township, Bayfield County.

Good luck!
I learned about this list from Jeanette.
Chuck