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Hanhisalo
24-07-05, 23:32
Hello everybody!
I am looking for the uncle to my grandmother. His name is Juho Williammi Serafiansson Hanhisalo. He was born 1875-10-17 in
Kälviä, Ullava församling, Finland. I am told that he went to America. I know that he fixed himself a passport 1901-11-04. But then the trace of him ends here. I have tried to find him by looking at passenger arrivals. My grandmother says he wrote letters to her mom (his sister), but as the letter was written in finnish they were thrown away when my grandmothers mom died in 1960. In passport records in Finland his name is only Juho Hanhisalo, and Juho would probably be John when he came her.

Juho Williammi could have gone by boat from Finland but no such records has been done. My theory is that he followed his mom and sister to Sweden and as soon as they got in place, he carried on himself to USA either from Sweden or from Northern of Norway. Please does anyone know this man or know were I can find him. I am curious if we have relatives over there.
best regards
Anna

granskare
25-07-05, 20:18
Arrived Boston Apr 3 1906, age 24
Finnish residence given as Allava (could be your Ullava)
Previously in America 1903-1905 at Ashtabula, Ohio (lots of Finns there) and this time he went to Ashtabula, OH to his uncle Matt Klemola.

You decide :)

Chuck

Hanhisalo
26-07-05, 03:20
Here comes the problems. You see my Juho is much older and he had no uncle since he was born out of weddlock and the uncles he had on his mothers side is Hanhisalos. No one of them came to America.

First of all two Juho Hanhisalo applies for passports, the one is mine born 1875 passport number 377 and were destined to Northamerica. The second one is born in 1881 and has passport number 1383. This number 2 applied for his passport 1906-03-16. Both these guys were from the same parish, Ullava. I found this information in the Finnish Immigrant institute passport records.

And then when I look into the passenger records there are three Juho Hanhisalo. They were all going to Ashtabula.
1) Juho Hanhisalo age 17 date of depature 1902-04-12, Ship from Finland: Arcturus
2) Juho Hanhisalo age 20 date of depature 1902-04-12, Ship from Finland: Arcturus
3) Juho Hanhisalo age 24 date of depature 1906-03-21, Ship from Finland: Arcturus, depature from England 1906-03-31, Ocean line: Cunard line.
I don´t know how they suddenly could be three of them, but the age doesn´t fit my Juho. In 1902 he would be 27 and in 1906 he would be 31. He is far much older than these three. I don´t know if he would lie about his age but it´s about 10 years older. And he might have added up in Ashtabula but I don´t think the one you´ve found is him.
Sorry
:confused:
best regards
Anna

granskare
26-07-05, 04:08
This Juho was in America 1903-1905 so it could be that the record is showing him traveling twice. I can't explain two Juha Hanhisalo guys traveling on the same ship the same day and 3 years apart in age. I am thinking that's the same guy and not two different people but I haven't seen the records so just a guess.
EDIT: I went to Ellis Island and found 3 Juho Hanhisalo guys arriving NY Apr 19 1902, Juho age 20 and Juho age 17, both going to Ashtabula so my disbelief about 2 guys the same name with different ages traveling the same day has been proven wrong. Then we also have listed with them Joseph Hanhisalo, age 18 listed more or less with Juho Hanhisalo age 20. They seem to be going to a brother Kalle or maybe just Juho Hanhisalo age 20. Along with these Hanhisalo boys is an Elias Hanhisalo age 19. These four boys were all grouped on the manifest. There are other Hanhisalo people from Ullava on the Ellis Island listing. Interesting:)

Swenson Swedish center here in town has a couple of churches in Ashtabula but I am sure he won't be found there unless he married a Swedish speaking woman. I will check and see.

There were 3 Finnish language churches in Ashtabula and most likely he would use one of them.

I will be to Swenson tomorrow and will see what is there.

Chuck

jeanette
26-07-05, 11:00
Hi Anna,
Welcome to Finlander!
I haven't been able to locate any listings for Hanhisalo on the Scandinavians in the 1910 US Federal Census index. There were a number of Salo listings and these are the John approx age from those. However none in Ohio.
SALO,JOHAN E,36,M,W,FIN,KINGS,29-WD BROOKLYN,982,2,76,B,NY
SALO,JOHN,38,M,W,FIN,DOUGLAS,4-WD SUPERIOR,1707,2,19,A,WI
SALO,JOHN,37,M,W,FINL,4-DIVISION,FAIRBANKS,1749,2,147,A,AK
SALO,JOHN,36,M,W,FINL,ST LOUIS,GREAT SCOTT TWP,723,1,148, B,MN
SALO,JOHN,33,M,W,FINL,COCHISE,1-WD BISBEE,38,2,31,A,AZ
SALO,JOHN,33,M,W,FINL,VILAS,EAGLE RVR,1737,1,283,A,WI

The Ohio Historical Society Death Certificate Index Searchable Database has a listing for a John in the yrs 1928-1932 unfortunately there is no identifying information.
http://www.ohiohistory.org/dindex/

Do you know what name John may have chosen if he changed his surname?
Jeanette

Onerva
26-07-05, 15:49
Hi Hanhisalo!

This is so interesting! Just a couple of weeks ago i was seaching information of my grandmother´s sister (my father´s aunt) and i found this website.

My mother´s mother was Hanhisalo and i just borrowed Hanhisalo´s genealogy from my mother´s uncle. I found there information:

Serafia Juhontytär Hanhisalo b. 11.1.1851 in Ullava, then moved in 1873 to Kälviä. She had two children:

1. Juho Viljami b. 17.10.1875
2. Maria Familia b. 26.11.1886

Serafia lived sevaral places in Alatornio, Kainuu and Northern-Sweden. Serafia died in 13.4.1936.

Juho moved with his mother to Ullava in 1883. Maria moved with her mother and brother to Jokkmokk in 1914 .

Maria had one child:
Ragnar Natanael b.5.3.1911. Ragnar´s father is Nils Fredrik Nilsson.

So, if i understand this correctly, Ragnar is your granmother´s aunt´s child?

I hope this information is helpful and you find your relatives!
Please send me e-mail, if you want to contact me!

Onerva :p

kpaavola
26-07-05, 18:01
I don't know if Paavo Hanhisalo is a member of this forum but he participates on Finngen. He most likely would have information on this family.

Paavo & I share some common ancestors but way back. Some even go back to the Veteli area in the 1600s/1700s.

Might be worth posting a message there as well.

Hanhisalo
26-07-05, 18:43
Hi there!
I have had contacts with Paavo for many years ago and he gave me a copy of were Juho Williammi were born. I had already his mothers name and realtives several genarations back, but then I got more information from Paavo. Sorry to say Paavo doesn´t know what happened with Juho Williammi. Paavo got information from me regarding living relatives of Hanhisalos in North of Sweden.
So thanks but this trace is already tested and a dead end.
:confused:
best regards
Anna

Hanhisalo
26-07-05, 18:56
Serafia Juhontytär is my grandmothers grandmother and Ragnar Natanael is my grandmothers brother not uncles child.
That was interesting that you wrote that Juho Williammi also came to Jokkmokk. I have never heard that before. My grandmothers (Mary) mother (Maria) gave birth to 12 children and I already had the information you gave me.

Serafia was a bit funny because she lied to here grandchildren and said that her name was Josefina Miettinen, wich made it difficult for me at starters when I was serching for her. Why she said another name, I don´t know but when she died they (authoraties) said here name was Serafia Johansdotter Hanisalo Miettinen. She was never really written in Sweden and she lived round Sangis a place near Kalix. Her daughter moved with her husband to a place called Nietsavaare, near Jokkmokk.

How exactly are you related to me?

I have a homepage were you can se some of the Hanhisalos. I have picture of my grandmother Mary and my grandmothers mother Maria and her husband Nils-Fredrik. My homepage is not completed but I update information from time to time.

http://hem.passagen.se/awiika

The page is on Swedish but click on "Min släkt" den you will be able to enter to my relatives.

:)
Best regards
Anna

Hanhisalo
26-07-05, 19:05
Hi Jeanette!
If John changed his name, well first of all his birthname is
Juho Williammi Serafiansson Hanhisalo
And his first names would be John William if translated in English.
Then there is a possability that he would have taken Miettinen since his mother just took that name for no reason when she came to Sweden. I think she wanted to hide something. I don´t know if there are any registers where one could check the passport number?

I have been told that Hanhi means Goose and salo means Grove. In Sweden it is common that finns translates there names because they are ashamed of there inherritance.
John William Goosegrove could be one option.

Just Salo? Maybe.... It is hard since I don´t know where or when he left or what he was thinking of.

This really beats me
Best regards
Anna



Originally posted by jeanette
Hi Anna,
Welcome to Finlander!
I haven't been able to locate any listings for Hanhisalo on the Scandinavians in the 1910 US Federal Census index. There were a number of Salo listings and these are the John approx age from those. However none in Ohio.
SALO,JOHAN E,36,M,W,FIN,KINGS,29-WD BROOKLYN,982,2,76,B,NY
SALO,JOHN,38,M,W,FIN,DOUGLAS,4-WD SUPERIOR,1707,2,19,A,WI
SALO,JOHN,37,M,W,FINL,4-DIVISION,FAIRBANKS,1749,2,147,A,AK
SALO,JOHN,36,M,W,FINL,ST LOUIS,GREAT SCOTT TWP,723,1,148, B,MN
SALO,JOHN,33,M,W,FINL,COCHISE,1-WD BISBEE,38,2,31,A,AZ
SALO,JOHN,33,M,W,FINL,VILAS,EAGLE RVR,1737,1,283,A,WI

The Ohio Historical Society Death Certificate Index Searchable Database has a listing for a John in the yrs 1928-1932 unfortunately there is no identifying information.
http://www.ohiohistory.org/dindex/

Do you know what name John may have chosen if he changed his surname?
Jeanette

Hanhisalo
26-07-05, 20:27
I am thrilled that you are checking this out for me with Swanson.

Just for the record but these are all Hanhisalos that were registered as passengers from Finland to Ashtabula. I am not serching for them but since you saw there were many of them, it could be intresting as a curiosity.

Last name First names Place of destination State Country Date

Hanhisalo Ida Ashtabula OH USA 08.05.1907
Hanhisalo Matti Ashtabula OH USA 08.05.1907
Hanhisalo Juho Ashtabula OH USA 12.04.1902
Hanhisalo Elias Ashtabula OH USA 12.04.1902
Hanhisalo Josef Ashtabula OH USA 12.04.1902
Hanhisalo Juho Ashtabula OH USA 12.04.1902
Hanhisalo Maria Selinda Ashtabula OH USA 14.02.1906
Hanhisalo Antti Ashtabula OH USA 14.09.1901
Hanhisalo Hilda K. Ashtabula OH USA 14.09.1901
Hanhisalo Amanda Ashtabula OH USA 15.05.1902
Hanhisalo Anders Ashtabula OH USA 15.05.1902
Hanhisalo Kalle Ashtabula OH USA 17.11.1909
Hanhisalo Juho Ashtabula OH USA 21.03.1906
Hanhisalo Hedvig Ashtabula OH USA 22.06.1912
Hanhisalo Juha Ashtabula OH USA 22.06.1912
Hanhisalo Kerttu Ashtabula OH USA 22.06.1912
Hanhisalo Yrjö Ashtabula OH USA 22.06.1912
Hanhisalo Aatu Ashtabula OH USA 25.09.1909
Hanhisalo Antti Ashtabula OH USA 27.05.1899
Hanhisalo Alma (Alina?) Ashtabula OH USA 31.03.1900
Best regards
Anna
:D

granskare
26-07-05, 21:13
It's more likely they used one of the Finnish language churches in Ashtabula.

I have no access to them here at Swenson.

Chuck

Hanhisalo
26-07-05, 22:01
Originally posted by granskare
It's more likely they used one of the Finnish language churches in Ashtabula.

I have no access to them here at Swenson.

Chuck

Thanks for trying and well I don´t know if Juho spoke swedish. I don´t think so since his sister Maria got letters in Finnish.
Thanks anyway
Anna:)

jeanette
28-07-05, 07:24
With that many Hanhisalo people travelling to Ashtabula around the turn of the century I would have expected to see at least some Hanhisalo listings in the 1910 census. Where are they all hiding?No luck with Goosegrove but this possibility for Miettinen.

Surname: MATTINENEN |Given Name: JOHN
Age: 36 | Sex: M | Race: WHITE
Birthplace: FINLAND
County: ASHTABULA |Locality: 4-WD CONNEAUT
T624-Roll: 1152 | Part: 2 | Page: 116 | Subpage: A
State: OH

Jeanette

Onerva
28-07-05, 11:48
Hi Hanhisalo!

I researched the Hanhisalo genealogy yesterday, trying to see, is there possibility, that we are relatives...

So it took time, because that is a book.
But this is what i found and i ´m quite sure that this is correct.

My mother´s grandfather´s grandfather´s stepfather´s sister was Priita Kaisa Hanhisalo. And is this correct, that Juho Viljami Hanhisalo´s grandmother was Priita??

Priita´s brother Juho was in a situation that he had to give the farm to his 3rd wife´s son Heikki. And Heikki was originally Järvelin, and he changed his last name to Hanhisalo. Juho had 13 children, but only one survived, her name was Anna Liisa, and she was married to Juho Jaakko Sakarinpoika Videnoja. So Juho had this only option to make, and that´s why Heikki Järvelin got the farm.

This is so interesting, and i´m in the beginning of my research. I don´t know so much about my genealogy.

BR,
Onerva:)

Hanhisalo
28-07-05, 16:45
Originally posted by jeanette
With that many Hanhisalo people travelling to Ashtabula around the turn of the century I would have expected to see at least some Hanhisalo listings in the 1910 census. Where are they all hiding?No luck with Goosegrove but this possibility for Miettinen.

Surname: MATTINENEN |Given Name: JOHN
Age: 36 | Sex: M | Race: WHITE
Birthplace: FINLAND
County: ASHTABULA |Locality: 4-WD CONNEAUT
T624-Roll: 1152 | Part: 2 | Page: 116 | Subpage: A
State: OH

Jeanette

Hello Jeanette!
It isn´t impossible that this would be him. I know names could be spelled differently because they sound in on way and the actual spelling is another.
I will look a bit further here in Sweden after the last tips I got and then if I found him in Sweden and if he maybe changed his name here, then I will try to locate him with the tip I got from you now.

What does Census stand for?
And yes where were they all hiding? Maybe it is like today when refugees comes to Sweden the move in with relatives and if you don´t have to have any connection with the authoraties, then who would know you are here?

Well anyway thanks for helping me!
best regards
Anna

Hanhisalo
28-07-05, 16:53
Originally posted by Onerva
Hi Hanhisalo!

I researched the Hanhisalo genealogy yesterday, trying to see, is there possibility, that we are relatives...

So it took time, because that is a book.
But this is what i found and i ´m quite sure that this is correct.

My mother´s grandfather´s grandfather´s stepfather´s sister was Priita Kaisa Hanhisalo. And is this correct, that Juho Viljami Hanhisalo´s grandmother was Priita??

Priita´s brother Juho was in a situation that he had to give the farm to his 3rd wife´s son Heikki. And Heikki was originally Järvelin, and he changed his last name to Hanhisalo. Juho had 13 children, but only one survived, her name was Anna Liisa, and she was married to Juho Jaakko Sakarinpoika Videnoja. So Juho had this only option to make, and that´s why Heikki Järvelin got the farm.

This is so interesting, and i´m in the beginning of my research. I don´t know so much about my genealogy.

BR,
Onerva:)

Hi again Onerva!
No Juho Williammis grandmothers name was not Brita (Priita is the finnish spelling of the same name). But Juho Williammis grandfathers mothers name was Brita Cajsa Gustafsdotter Hanhisalo born 1786-07-17. This Brita Cajsa was merried to Johan Eriksson Hanhisalo born 1790-08-24. They got a son called Johan Johansson Hanhisalo born 1817-06-18. He was the father to Serafia Johansdotter (Juhontytär and Johansdotter is the same) Hanhisalo, the mother of Juho Williammi.

Now I have made my homepage in an english version. You could see more of the Hanhisalos there.

As I recall it I don´t have any Järvelins but Widenoja.
best regards
Anna

granskare
28-07-05, 20:23
Jeanette asked me to check that Manninenen name - when I saw the image, it was clearly Mattinenen so what was the transcriber thinking?

I will just list the family and if they fit, I can add the image later on.
John Mattinenen, age 36, hotelkeeper
wife Hilda, age 40
son Charles, age 14
dau Hilda, age 3
dau Lempa, age 1 1/2

Chuck:confused:

Hanhisalo
29-07-05, 15:46
Originally posted by granskare
Jeanette asked me to check that Manninenen name - when I saw the image, it was clearly Mattinenen so what was the transcriber thinking?

I will just list the family and if they fit, I can add the image later on.
John Mattinenen, age 36, hotelkeeper
wife Hilda, age 40
son Charles, age 14
dau Hilda, age 3
dau Lempa, age 1 1/2

Chuck:confused:
Hi Chuck!
If it is my John, then the children would not be his. Not the 14 year old one. Because he had no wife or kids in Finland and if I will find him in Sweden maybe he could have managed to get a wife then. Is there any chance to see if this John is the real father of this three kids? Because if he is, then his not mine. But maybe if he is the father to the 2 or 1 yonger child.

Writing names isn´t easy and especially if your not familiar with the language. Finnish language is one of the hardest to learn. I have tried. I went to a course but the members all quit one by one. Finally there was only me and the teacher left. The society said that we couldn´t be that few so both me and the teacher had to quit as well.
Anyway Chuck thanks for checking this out for me.
Best regards
Anna
:)

granskare
29-07-05, 18:03
I should have mentioned that son Charles was listed as born in Finland while the younger kids were born in Ohio.
Looks like 16 Finnish boarders in their hotel.

Perhaps you could post the names and particulars of the Mietinen family so that I could check them out? Or send it to me in a PM.

Chuck:)

Shirley King
30-07-05, 07:05
Originally posted by Hanhisalo


What does Census stand for?

best regards
Anna [/B]

Census= periodic official count of the number of persons and their condition and of the resources of a country. In ancient times, among the Jews and Romans, such enumeration was mainly for taxation and conscription purposes. The introduction of the modern census—a periodic and thorough statistical review—began in the 17th cent. The first efforts to count people in areas larger than cities at regular periods were in French Canada (1665), Sweden (1749), the Italian states (1770), and the United States (1790). The first British census was taken in 1801.
Some countries take a census every 5 or ten years. The US takes their census every ten years.

Shirley King

Hanhisalo
30-07-05, 22:43
Originally posted by Shirley King
Census= periodic official count of the number of persons and their condition and of the resources of a country.
Shirley King

Hi Shirley!
Thanks for the answer! Census must be like SCB here in Sweden. SCB is a shortening for Statistical Central Bureau. They started to do statistics on the population round 1890. Before that it was churchbooks and taxlengths.
Many thanks again
Anna

Hanhisalo
30-07-05, 22:55
Originally posted by granskare
I should have mentioned that son Charles was listed as born in Finland while the younger kids were born in Ohio.
Looks like 16 Finnish boarders in their hotel.

Perhaps you could post the names and particulars of the Mietinen family so that I could check them out? Or send it to me in a PM.

Chuck:)

Hi Chuck!
I don´t have any names on a Miettinen family. It all started with the question I got regarding if Juho Hanisalo maybe could have used another name, and as a guess, only a wild guess, I said that he maybe called himself Miettinen, since his mother took that name when she came to Sweden. His sister didn´t call herself by that name. She kept her own.
And since Juho Williammi (John William) were the only one that went away, I can not give you any other name. He had no family of his own in Finland. He was a bachelor.
The problem is, I don´t know for fact if he followed his sister and mother (I am gonna check that in the nearest weeks). All I know is that he is not on any passengerlist from Finland to USA. He got a passport.
Then I only have theories like:
Did he follow his mother and sister to Sweden?
Did he change his name and stayed here incognito?
Did he follow his mother and sister just to help the settle down and then go to Norway, to make the trip from there?

I know a guy that also search for ancestors and he has relatives in USA. He told me that it was common for people in the North of Sweden (were I come from) to go to USA from Norway. The other Swedes (from middle and the south of Sweden) often went from Gothenburg or Stockholm.

I know for fact the Juhos sister Maria Familia took her communion 1914 in a place called Gällivare. I was surprised why she did it there, since she lived in Jokkmokk when she got husband and children. The mother worked in Båtskärsnäs far away from Jokkmokk and Gällivare. This is a very big area to search for a person that wants to hide and is a little bit to fresh (historicly) when it comes to archives.

I have searched for this man since the day I knew he existed. I started Genealogy in 1985 and about 1990 I got hold of this man.
It´s really a long time and when I got stuck I search for other things but I always comes back to this.

best regards
Anna
:cool:

Hanhisalo
30-07-05, 22:59
Originally posted by granskare
Perhaps you could post the names and particulars of the Mietinen family so that I could check them out? Or send it to me in a PM.

Chuck:)

I almost forgot. I wrote earlier that Juho could not be the father of the oldest child since he had none in Finland. I just figured if he met a woman later and could be the father of the other two. This was just a guessing from my side. Because if the man Jeanette found is the father of all three he is NOT mine.
best regards
Anna
:cool:

jeanette
31-07-05, 08:47
Anna,
Chuck checked the 1910 census image and the number of years married shows as 16 so confirming this John Miettinen is not yours
from the information you have given. Unfortunately the index only includes basic information and viewing the image confirms or negates a possibility.

Have you checked the Norwegian emigration records? Chuck posted a link to them in the Genealogy resources section titled
'Norway departures of people from Finland' on the 3rd July.
The Danish Emigration site you mentioned also covers the early years of 1900 http://www.emiarch.dk/search.php3?l=en

I found a discussion about your Juho William Hanhisalo on Finngen poissa/Hanhisalo dated 6th Jan 2004. Unfortunately I can't read Finnish so don't know what the outcome was.

I'm sorry we haven't been able to locate Juho, we may be better able to help you when a destination in America or an alternative name is found.

Jeanette

Hanhisalo
02-08-05, 02:42
Thanks for looking up on Juho the married guy. It is the best to know very quickly when a trace or possible trace is wrong. As soon as the man had a family I got suspiciuos. I have ordered home a lot of microfische (-cards) that I hope to recieve in the middle or end of this week. I hope I will find a trace after the man here in Sweden and if I don´t then I will not know what to do, but it is best to take one problem at a time. I really want to find this guy.
And I will tell if I find anything new.
The Internet gives more opportunities nowadays. For instance this evening I found many generations back in time.

Best regards
Anna

CarolT
04-05-11, 05:13
Hello,

I am new to this blog after searching for information for my daughter's school project.

I am searching for information about my great grandfather and noticed some similarities in this post. He was born in Turku, Finland on 10/17/1875. My family knew him as William John Hanson. I remember talking to my grandmother and she said he used William and John interchangeably, however, I have his signature as Wm. Hanson. My grandmother also told me his name at birth was Wilhelm Johan Hunnisalo or Hunhisalo. I was told he left Finland with his brother and moved to Canada before coming to the US.

Could this be the same person?

Sincerely,
Carol