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Gita Wiklund
04-09-05, 18:06
Hi!

Is anyone familiar with the Family search records?
I made a search and think I found the death-date of a a relative. But of course I´m not really sure it is the right person, and there is only the date + Finland. So I don´t know how to go further.
There is a message that says "Record submitted by a member of the LDS Church..."
There is also a source info and a fimnumber with a link. If I klick the link i get a new link (tite of source) "Salt Lake City temple endowments for the dead, 1893-1970; heir indexes, 1924-1956; baptisms for the dead, 1941-1970, 1893-1970 " and klicking on that link I get notes that I don´t quite unerstand.

My question is: What kind of source is this, and how can I go further with this and look up this info?

Here is the link to the post I found in Family Search (http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/IGI/individual_record.asp?recid=700017808195&lds=1&region=7&regionfriendly=Finland&frompage=99)

Hope someone can help me with this.

Gita

granskare
04-09-05, 18:36
I heard that the mormons got the idea to get the names of dead people and somehow baptize them into the mormon church but this is the first time I've actually seen it in print.

Hmm, I wonder if they have baptized Pope John-Paul II or maybe Adolf Hitler? or Genghis Khan? Maybe even Mohammed?

In my opinion, it's a ludicrous and arrogant idea but it did lead to giving access to genealogical records for the rest of us.

Chuck:)

Gita Wiklund
04-09-05, 19:11
Well, as long as they mean well I don´t mind ;)

granskare
04-09-05, 21:45
the genealogy thing was an unintended but now desirable outcome plus they make a lot of money out of it as well:)

Gita Wiklund
04-09-05, 23:28
well, I found an important clue to where my gggggfather lived before he moved to Helsinki through their website. So I´m greatful. I would have had more trouble + more costs in finding that out in an other way. The data on the website is free of charge, but of course very unreliable, and much data one could expect to find isn´t there at all.. But as I said sometimes what there is can be useful, lead you forward in some direction as in that case. I use whatever clues I can find and then I check it up in more reliable sources.

Shirley King
09-09-05, 07:39
Yes Chuck,
The Mormons are a strange breed, indeed! I live 4 hours from SLC and there is a big Mormon community in NE Nevada as well. They believe they get more kudos in heaven if they recuit more members, and baptizing the dead is one way to insure their respectable place in the great beyond. It really goes deeper than that, but my understanding is they will only baptize the dead relative of a member of the mormon church per request of that member. This is one of the reasons for the extensive geneology research. They have many other strange ideas of religion, their own testament of the Bible, and the belief that Jesus has already returned once so far..........to the Americas. OHhhhh, don't get me started.....but it is interesting fiction nevertheless.
Shirley

granskare
09-09-05, 07:51
That would suggest that I have a mormon relative somewhere.
Looks like I'll have to get my Florida lawyer stoked up and drag them into court :D

Chuck

Kaj Granlund
10-09-05, 20:25
I once asked a mormon about this and he said that they believe in the free will of man and that they give the dead person they baptize the possibility to accept the mormon belief and enter the better. But this baptism is not allowed but to the closest family. But that doesn't fit with the information I found on the net. Both my grandmother and my grandfather have been baptized by the mormons after their death.
But we have no close relatives that are mormons. Close enough to be allowed to do this. So it seems there is an official verison but another in deed.
I our case it seems so wrong as I know my granparents wouldn't have accepted this if they were asked, as they both were believing lutheran christians.

Gita Wiklund
11-09-05, 12:23
well, this is not quite the discussion I expected when starting the thread, but I guess it was inevitable.

Here is what they themselves say in this matter:

Why Family History? (http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Home/Welcome/frameset_information.asp?GPage=why_family_history. asp&APage=why_family_history_a.asp)

/Gita

sune
12-09-05, 10:01
According to a debate going on in the Kyrkpressen (http://www.kyrkpressen.fi/) the mormons also marry deceased unmarried women.

Sune

Gita Wiklund
12-09-05, 18:59
Det där var ju sannerligen ett uppseendeväckande och oetiskt förfarande, Sune. Som väl är verkar de ha upphört med det nu iallafall.

Horrible, that they used to do this, but it seems like they don´t do it anymore ( thank god ;-)).

clmatt1
17-09-05, 19:43
I am not mormon so I am not defending the religion or their practices but to say that their information in inaccurate or unreliable would be unfair. Many of their records are copies of original church and government records from around the world. For instance, if you compare a record for someone from Finland that is on their site with a record from the HisKi database, they will be the same or very similar. Or compare their 1880 US census with Ancestry.com census. Not all people named in their database were of the mormon faith or even part of a mormon family. I have used the LDS site as a genealogy source but not as my only source. In my opinion you need to check and compare different sources before you can comfirm any information to be accurate.

Lori

Gita Wiklund
18-09-05, 15:07
Lori,

I agree with you completely. I don´t think I or anyone else said anything else.

clmatt1
23-09-05, 19:04
Gita:

In your post on 04-09-05 you stated: 'The data on the website is free of charge, but of course very unreliable'. If I misunderstood what you were saying, I apologize. I just didn't want anyone to be mislead to think that the LDS records were not a good source to refer to.

Lori:)

Gita Wiklund
25-09-05, 16:52
Yes, I can see now why you misunderstood.
Anyway, in my opinion, as you say:

".. you need to check and compare different sources before you can comfirm any information to be accurate"

+ I still believe some sources to be more reliable than others, for instance the church record itself is of course much more reliable than a transcript of it.

:) Gita

susanmartimo
28-09-05, 05:56
I looked online for information on my family, but ended up going to the local Family History Center. They are set up in local Mormon churches throughout the US. If you have the number for the microfilm reel(s) that you are looking for, you can pay a small fee (about $3.50 per reel) to have it sent to that Family History Center. They will let you know it has arrived, then you can go there to view it on the microfilm machines. They have most of the actual Finnish parish records on microfilm.

I printed a number of pages of what looked like family members and later found that most of them were, indeed my relatives. It showed the whole family group, their birthdate, when they moved into that parish, etc. It took a lot of hours on evenings and Saturdays, but I found out a lot.

The data base may not be as accurate because people fill in their own information, but the microfilm was very accurate as it was of the original records. Of course, you have to figure out the handwriting.

nikus
28-09-05, 19:14
Oh yes, Chuck,
Adolf is in their heaven. He has been both baptized and married several times. To make sure?
He and his buddies have been removed from the IGI, so don´t bother.
My ggf has been very popular among the mormons. His name occurs 4 times on IGI. My wife´s ggf 6 times. All baptisms performed by non-relatives. Just to keep the members busy.
Horrible!
Torbjörn

Gita Wiklund
29-09-05, 11:29
At last an answer to my question! Thank you Susan!!

I guess I´ll have to find out how I can get this service here in Sweden.

/Gita

susanmartimo
12-10-05, 05:35
Go to http://www.familysearch.org/ There's a search box on the screen that says: Find a Family History Center Near Your Home. Enter "Sweden" and you'll find several centers listed. I don't know Swedish geography, so don't know what would be near you.

The Family History Centers have volunteers that can be very helpful in locating the correct microfilm reels and often they have libraries with other information.

Good luck!
Susan

Alicia
16-10-05, 17:25
Hello Gita,
I was curious about the Mormon site so I started typing
some of my family names in . Lo and behold it states
that it was submitted by a member of their church!
I then tried one of my friends family the Torikka name
in Canada and got the same message! I do not
know of any family members who are Mormon !
I live in a small community which is mostly Lutheran
and find this practice of "taking" over my ancestors
dishonest.
I would advise the rest of you to do what I did,
seach this site by last name and see what you find.
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp
Alicia