View Full Version : Swan

June Pelo
22-09-05, 02:40
Thought I'd bring you up to date on the strange case of John Joutsen-Swan and family. John has said in several newspaper interviews that he was born in 1877 in Evijärvi, yet people who have checked Evijärvi records didn't find his name. John said he emigrated to the US in 1904, but his daughter Aina said he came here in 1901. His grandson said John Swan and Edla Altonen were married 1900 in Worcester, MA and by 1904 they had 3 children, born in MA. The Institute of Migration has a John Emil Joutsen, b. 1885 in Ilmajoki; to Boston 1903, but there's no John b. 1877. This John Emil was from Kohtala. We've had people checking for Swan records in MA, but the only thing found was a death record for Edla in 1936 in Worcester, MA. John Swan's grandson said John died 29 Sep 1956 in California. We tried to get a copy of the death record, but were told only direct descendants can have a copy. Today I contacted a genealogist in Finland who has Evijärvi records and he could not find John Joutsen, born 1877. We wonder: was he born with a different name, on a different date or in a different place?

In a 1915 interview in MA, John said that he left home at age 10 to work for 5 years in the building trade, and then he went to a technical school in Helsinki to learn a trade, while also taking a class in music during the evenings. He said he emigrated in 1904 during the Russo-Japanese war to avoid conscription. So we have no definite proof of anything at this point and don't know who or what to believe.


Karen Norwillo
22-09-05, 03:57
June, I sent Jeanette all the Joutsen names I found on the 1910 Census, as well as those I found elsewhere. None of them match. I did find a Matti Joutsen, born Apr 1878, in Brooklyn on the 1900 Census. He was single, a boarder, age 22, carpenter, but says from Sweden.I also checked out Aaltonen and found many in 1910, but no matches for Edla. Thought maybe they stayed with her family during the 1910 Census, but no luck. Either they were missed on the 1910 census or the name is grossly misspelled. I tried every variation of Swan I could think of. Karen

22-09-05, 10:23
Johan Swan could have been baptized Jussi or Juhani. Is it possible that he wasn't born at Joutsen farm but that his father was and that he started to use the Joutsen name when he moved to Helsingfors for his education?

There may be other possibillities, who knows, but it seems that you have to look for the improbable when the probable leads to a dead end.


22-09-05, 12:18
John M. Swan is possibly in the Ellis Island database as Matti Svan. It
reads clearly 22 in the age column of the original manifest even if the
text records have his age as 31. He arrived on May 20, 1899 on the S.S
LOUIS sailing from Southampton May 13, 1899.

He was going to join two brothers - but I am not able to read their names,
the first name starts with "He" - at a address in New York City. Steve
Morse's search page is down for the moment but the manifest can be found
at http://www.ellisislandrecords.org/ searching "Mattie Svan". He is on
line 15 of the manifest.

The designation Matti indicates he was from a mainly Finnish-speaking parish.

Neither Matti Svan nor co-passengers (at least a sample of them) did
travel with a Finland Steamship Company ship from Finland. I checked the
home parishes of two of the co-passengers close to Matti on the manifest
with the help of the passport register. Maria Finholm was from Larsmo and
Johan Åvist from Purmo. Matti Svan was not in the passport register. The
passenger next to Matti Svan, Isak Waltti, was going to join a Kosta
Hakkula. I was not able to determine their home parish in Finland.

Paivi T
22-09-05, 17:15
Couldn't resist a peek at the original ship manifest. The next page of the manifest has Matti's mother tongue listed as Swedish.

My 2 Eurocents' worth,


June Pelo
22-09-05, 23:00
My thanks to Karen, Sune, Staffan and Päivi for those added bits of information. I'll forward it all to Sven. That Matti Svan sounds promising because one of John Swan's grandchildren now thinks he was born 1878. Karen found this:
1900 census, Brooklyn, NY,
Joutsen, Matti, boarder, 22, born Apr 1878, says Sweden, single, carpenter.

Even though he's recorded as being from Sweden, that could be an error by the census taker - or Matti (John?) could have deliberately said Sweden. I've known of several instances where Finlanders said they were from Sweden because they feared being traced by someone in Finland. The fact that the name Matti was used would seem to indicate he was Finnish. If the above Matti Joutsen emigrated in 1899 he probably lived in a boarding house in Brooklyn - where lots of Finns lived - and he was still single because he didn't marry until 1900. This is speculation, but sounds good.

I, too, wondered if John Joutsen could have been born elsewhere and then his father moved to Joutsen - maybe he was a tenant farmer. Or perhaps his mother's name was Joutsen and the family lived with her parents and took her family name.

One of John Swan's grandchildren said that Edla Altonen's mother came from Marttila. And her name could have been Vilhelmina Lehto who married Vilhelm Aaltonen.

Does anyone know of a museum in Fort Bragg, CA? It's possible they may have information about John Joutsen-Swan. He was a carpenter, cabinet maker and made many musical instruments, such as organs, violins, bassoons, etc.

Thanks again for all your help.


23-09-05, 10:10
Originally posted by June Pelo
The fact that the name Matti was used would seem to indicate he was Finnish.

I know at least one person with the name Matti who is a Swede-Finn nevertheless. If one of the parents is a Swede and one a Finn and the family's main language is Swedish it is not unlikely that a child gets a "Finnish" name.

A Swedish family with a dear Finnish friend could name a child after that friend et.c.

You can't determine language in Finland solely by name.


Karen Norwillo
23-09-05, 18:00
While the ship's manifest of the SS St Louis shows Matti Sven's mother tongue as Swedish, it also shows him as a subject of Finland. Karen

June Pelo
23-09-05, 18:31
Jeanette just sent me something interesting:

-found a Selma Joutsen in the 1910 HQ census index
Surname: JOUTSEN Given Name: SELMA
Age: 34 Sex: F Race: WHITE
Birthplace: FINLAND
County: ALAMEDA Locality: 4-WD ALAMEDA T624-Roll: 69 Part: 1 Page: 159
Subpage: B State: CA
Karen looked her up and found she worked for a couple and was recorded on the 1910 census at their address although it said she was married with no kids. Karen found Herman in the 1910 and 1920 census also in Alameda perhaps he is Selmas husband. I highlighted Herman Joutsen in Karens info re Joutsen. He also lived in Alameda CA.

Ellis Island records show Matti Svan was going to New York to his two brothers: He(rm) or He(nr) and Jonas?? Could he be Herman Joutsen (Svan) who married Selma and moved to Alameda?

Karen, do you still have that census data about Herman Joutsen in Alameda? If Herman in Alameda was John Swan's brother, perhaps that explains why John moved to California. I guess we have to use our imagination with these people because we can't get much from the descendants.


June Pelo
24-09-05, 03:04
Sven just received this information from Evijärvi parish about John Swan. It's possible that Matti, b. 1877 could become Johan Mattsson. But John said he was one of 10 children, and there are only 7 listed. Note there is a Herman who moved to Terjärv. And the parents moved to Nedervetil. Evijärvi and Terjärv online records don't cover this time period. And we don't know if the Matti and Herman listed below emigrated to the US.

Are divorce records for Worcester, MA online for 1925-1935? We think John and his wife divorced or separated during that time period.


Aleksi Matinpoika Jouhten (Joutsen), s. 5.9.1848 Evijärvi, aviopuoliso, Fredrika Antintytär Nääs, s. 15.2.1850 Evijärvi, vihitty 7.10.1870 avioliittoon.

Molemmat muuttivat Evijärveltä 19.1.1890 Alaveteliin, avioliitossa.

Täällä heille on merkitty seuraavat lapset:

1. Herman, s. 6.4.1871 Evijärvi, muutti 25.10.1887 Teerijärvelle.

2. Antti, s. 30.9.1874 Evijärvi,

3. Matti, s. 7.10.1877 Evijärvi,

4. Aleksi, s. 6.2.1881 Evijärvi, kuoli 3.3.1881,

5. Aleksi, s. 11.1.1882 Evijärvi

6. Elias, s. 18.12.1885 Evijärvi,

7. Oskar, s. 1.11.1888 Evijärvi.

24-09-05, 04:15

Here is the info for Selma from Karens email
Selma Joutsen, age 34, servant, private home of Adam and Minnie Ramsey, born
Finn, US 1892, married, no kids, no husband listed.

Although Karen was able to locate Herman in both the 1910 and 1920 censuses I wasn't able to locate him in the 1910 Scandinavian index so unable to give a T624 roll no. and page.


24-09-05, 06:09
The information in Finnish says that Aleksi Matinpoika Jouhten (Joutsen),
b. 5.9.1848 Evijärvi, spouse, Fredrika Antintytär Nääs, b. 15.2.1850
Evijärvi, were married 7.10.1870. They both moved to Nedervetil (Alaveteli)
19.1.1890. They had the 7 children in the list born in Evijärvi. Herman
moved to Terjärv 25.10.1887. Were three children born later in Nedervetil
or at the place where the family lived in the 1890's even if Fredrika then
was over 40 years old? It would now, as far as I see, be necessary to get
help from family researchers who have access to Nedervetil (and Terjärv)
records. If there would for instance be a reccord for Matti "till Amerika

Hasse Andtbacka
24-09-05, 13:24
I didn't find the Aleksi Matinp. Jouhten family in the Nedervetil communion book.

Herman, whom was said to go to Terjärv, doesn't show up there. Instead he is on Backända in Nedervetil:

Herman Aleksi Jouhten b. 1872 (close enough)
wife Selma Sofia Zachrisdr Thorström b. 18.3.1875
The couple went to America 1895.

Hasse Andtbacka

24-09-05, 16:54
How to interpret the attached piece of text extracted from the original Ellis
Island manifest?

I would now say:

2 Bro Herm. & Joiner, i.e. Matti Svan was going to join 2 persons, his
brother Herman and an unknown joiner of Herman living at the address in NY.


June Pelo
24-09-05, 18:04
Thanks to Jeanette, Hasse and Staffan for this latest input. I'm sending it all to Sven to unravel this puzzle.


24-09-05, 18:10
Even if it can be, and I read it as "Joiner", the interpretation I thought
of - a person who joins - might be completely wrong. I looked it up in a
dictionary and in American English Joiner is a carpenter who makes
furniture. Anyway I wanted to correct my first reading when I read Bro s
instead of Bro.

What do all others read and can it be Joiner in the sense of a Carpenter?

June Pelo
25-09-05, 00:42

I've studied it but can't figure out what that other name is. I have sent your copy of the manifest to a genealogist in Finland to see what he thinks. In the meantime, we've had some good news. In addition to what Hasse Andtbacka found in Backända about Joutsen/Jouthen, I found that Aleksi Mattsson Jouhten and his wife Fredrika Andersdotter Nääs, were in Broända, Nedervetil between 1876 and 1906. Aleksi was an inhysingar and six children are listed, including a Matti Ivan, b. 7 Oct 1877 (I believe Ivan is Russian for John). And it indicated that Matti went to Helsingfors in 1897 - so he could have emigrated 1899 as has been mentioned.

In addition, just below this information is a reference to Backstugusittare Herman Aleksisson Jouhten, b. 1872 and wife Selma Sofia Zakrisdotter Thorström, b. 1875 in Himango - both to America. He would be Matti John's brother Herman who eventually ended up in Alameda, California after leaving New York.

So now I plan to take a break and try to digest all of this. My head is spinning :p


Karen Norwillo
25-09-05, 02:08
June, Here's what the 1910 census for Oakland Twsp, Alameda, CA says for Herman Joutsen, age 38, German, looks like 1889 or 1899 for emigration, status almost looks like a D, doesn't look like a S or M, could be divorced?? carpenter houses
1920 Berkley, Alameda, CA
Joutsen, Herman, 46, married, Finland, US 1889, lawyer
Joutsen, Sigrid, 37, Finland
No Selma found on the 1920 census. So the mystery continues. Karen

Karen Norwillo
25-09-05, 02:35
June, I found an address and email for a Guest House Museum and Mendicino Coast Historical Society. I sent an email enquiring if they had anything on John Swan in their collection. I'll let you know as soon as someone answers. They're at 343 N. Main St. Fort Bragg, CA 95437. Karen

June Pelo
25-09-05, 03:09
Thanks, Karen. We appreciate your doing that and hope they'll reply with something of interest.

As for that Herman in Alameda, I wonder if there were two Hermans, although the Herman in the Jouthen data was born in 1872 and he would have been 38 in 1910. I hope we'll find out more about Herman from someone in Finland.


25-09-05, 08:01
Hi June,
I found this record at Ellis Island under Joutson.
All references to the surname could be either en or on
very hard to read

First Name: Zaakko
Last Name: Joutson
Ethnicity: Finland Finish
Last Place of Residence: Plmajoki, Finland
Place of Birth Ilmajoki
Name & Address nearest Relative from whence come: Father Herman Joutson Kokkila K Ilmajoki
Date of Arrival: Feb 26, 1913
Age at Arrival: 19y Gender: M Marital Status: S
Description: Brown hair, Blue eyes
Ship of Travel: Oceanic
Destination: Brother Juho Joutson, 506 Iron St, Negaunee, MI
Passage Paid by brother
Port of Departure: Southampton
Manifest Line Number: 0002


25-09-05, 08:05
As I now believe that June has found the right Swans in Evijärvi and
Nedervetil I will link to an image of Finnish Swans (fi. Joutsen, sw. Svan)
who have returned as a breeding bird in Ostrobothnia very recently (after
1980) after being absent for a very long time.

Breeding Swans 2005 (http://sydaby.eget.net/eng/nybond/pics/bromossen_svanar.jpg)

I made a "quick" search in HisKi for Evijärvi. It must be checked thoroughly and it is
probably possible to find much more.

Parents of Alexander Mattsson Joutsen were
Matts Johanson Joutsen & Lisa Jakobsdotter Storkivi, married 11.10.1839

Parents of Matts Johanson Joutsen were
Johan Thomasson Söder Ena & Lisa Mattsdotter Söder Knifvilä , married

26-09-05, 11:54
There is one hit for Selma Joutsen in the U.S. Census to which I do not
have access.

Selma Joutsen is possibly in the Ellis Island database as Jontyin, Selma,
19 years, from Finland, married, arriving on the GERMANIC from Liverpool on
Aug, 22 1895.

If it is she it would be an example of how a difficult to pronounce/spell
name easily becomes corrupted in the database.

In the original manifest: Joutyin, Selma, 19, wife, dest. New York.

It comes to mind that the name in connection with Matti Svan in the EI
manifest starting with "Jo" might be a corrupted Joutsen.

June Pelo
26-09-05, 19:14
Thank you, Staffan and Jeanette,

Yes, I think we've all had some experience with pronouncing and spelling names. I've had a suspicion that Norrena would be involved in that family and have been going through online databases for Ena, Norrena. I'll send all of this to Sven for digesting..


June Pelo
27-09-05, 02:31
It looks like we've located John Swan's father's family data, but still have nothing about his mother Edla Maria Aaltonen. His father was Alexander Mattsson Jouhten, married to Fredrika Andersdotter Nääs. Both were born and married in Evijärvi and died at Broända in Nedervetil. They had 7 children, three of whom came to the US: Herman, Matti (John); and Oskar, who died 1910 somewhere in the US.

Matti adopted the Swan name ca 1894-95, went to Helsingfors in 1897. Somewhere along the way he changed his name from Matti Alexandersson Jouhten to John Matthew Swan. He said he went to a technical school in Helsingfors, and we have someone trying to find a record of that. I'll keep you posted as information trickles in.


29-09-05, 00:36
I don't know if Herman is related but I found him n Aberdeen WA church so here is the scan.

June Pelo
29-09-05, 22:19
Thanks, Chuck. The Swan name seems to be quite prevalent - but we don't know if they're all related. John Swan had a brother Herman, b. 1872, whose wife was Selma Sofia, so this Herman you found isn't John's brother. But I'll send it on to Sven - something may turn up later.

Right now we're trying to find John Swan's mother Edla Maria Aaltonen, b. 1877 in Finland. I searched HisKi for an Edla Maria, b. 1877, and came up with only one, b. in Anjola to Johannes Berggrén and Wilhelmina Mattsdotter. There was nothing about Aaltonen.

We have learned that John Swan's parents moved from Evijärvi to Nedervetil around the late 1880s. My father lived a few miles from Broända and it's possible that he went to the same school as John Swan's sister Olga, b. 1892.


30-09-05, 17:40
Hej June.
I found some more Edla Maria born 1877 in Hiski:

Anjala - döpta

Åren 1877 - 1877
Född Döpt By Gård Far Mor Barn

8.7.1877 15.7.1877 Muhniemi p.160 Skom. Johannes Berggrén h:u Wilhelmina Mattsdotter 27 Edla Maria

fadder: Skom. Anders Bergqvist
fadder: h:u Maria Sofia Hastig
fadder: j:fru Ida Charlotta Carlsdotter

Björneborg - Pori - döpta
Åren 1877 - 1877

Född Döpt By Gård Far Mor Barn

1.7.1877 2.7.1877 Inderö Savo Rajatorppa Torparen Karl Fredrik Mattsson hustru Serafia Johansdotter 30 Edla Maria

2.8.1877 5.8.1877 Pänäs Vahnbacka Torparen Isak Johansson hustru Gustafva Johansdotter 41 Edla Maria

6.12.1877 9.12.1877 Inderö skräddaren Johan Sandelin hustru Mathilda 36 Edla Maria

Kauhava - döpta
Åren 1877 - 1877

Född Döpt By Gård Far Mor Barn

15.8.1877 19.8.1877 Sippola aflidne bondemåg Karl Gustaf Karlsson hustru Maria Hermansd:r 25 Edla Maria

original - ALKUPKOMM: _f.139

Kerimäki - döpta
Åren 1877 - 1877

Född Döpt By Gård Far Mor Barn

18.5.1877 16.6.1877 Waahersalo 4 B. Johan Mattss. Kero Cecilia Maria Kosonen 38 Edla Maria

19.11.1877 30.12.1877 Waara n. 3 Inh Anders Paakkunainen Gustafva Ahola 19 Edla Maria

Kronoby - Kruunupyy - döpta
Åren 1877 - 1877

Född Döpt By Gård Far Mor Barn

4.12.1877 6.12.1877 Finholm Bn. Karl Erik Hansson Hru. Brita Jakobs dr. 41 Edla Maria

original - KKSIVU: 111
original - SIVU: 70
original - RIVI: 3
original - SYNTYSRK: Hopsala
original - KASTAJA: C. E. Bergman

Lappi - döpta
Åren 1877 - 1877

Född Döpt By Gård Far Mor Barn

12.4.1877 12.4.1877 Kivikylä Setälä Tal. Joh. Setälä Lovisa Mariana Johant. ? Edla Maria

original - PAPPI: J. Heininen, sivu 138
original - ALKUPKOMM:
fadder: Torpp. Elias Hakala
fadder: Torpp. Hakalan v. Fredrika Johant.

25.4.1877 26.4.1877 Ruona Wahala Taloll. Erik Erikinp. V. Lovisa Samulintytär 32 Edla Maria

original - PAPPI: J. Heininen, sivu 397
original - ALKUPKOMM:
fadder: Taloll. poika Johan Johanp. Kirstola
fadder: Kirstolan taloll. pojan v. Mina Johantytär
fadder: Kirstolan tytär Mina Johant.
fadder: Wahalan renki Fredrik Gustavinp.

16.6.1877 17.6.1877 Kullanperä Maijala Tal. Karl Maijala Fia Matintytär 32 Edla Maria

original - PAPPI: JR:r, sivu 217
original - ALKUPKOMM:
fadder: Tal. Efraim Arvela
fadder: Tal. Arvelan v. Mina Johantytär
fadder: Taloll. p. Viktor Maijala
fadder: Maijalan piika Lovisa Antint.

26.9.1877 27.9.1877 Ylikeeri Torpp. Isak Kylänpää Serafia Johantytär 31 Edla Maria

original - PAPPI: JR:r, sivu 457
original - ALKUPKOMM:
fadder: Taloll. Fredrik Mäki Impula
fadder: Taloll. Mäki Impulan v. Juliana Johantytär

Laukaa - döpta
Åren 1877 - 1877

Född Döpt By Gård Far Mor Barn

2.6.1877 16.6.1877 Leppävesi 8 Sågk. Vilhelm Leppänen Amalia Malm 27 Edla Maria

Muolaa - döpta
Åren 1877 - 1877

Född Döpt By Gård Far Mor Barn

27.12.1877 7.1.1878 Perkjärvi Lks. Johan Backa Josefina Dahlström 23 Edla Maria

original - KKSIVU: p. 398

Nykyrka - Uusikirkko Vl - döpta
Åren 1877 - 1877

Född Döpt By Gård Far Mor Barn

13.6.1877 19.6.1877 Harju Banvakten: Johan Hedman Maria Kosonen 35 Edla Maria

S:t Petersburgs finska Maria förs - Pietarin suomalainen Marian srk - döpta

Åren 1877 - 1877

Född Döpt By Gård Far Mor Barn

28.4.1877 1.5.1877 Maria Eriks Tr. Edla Maria

original - ALKUPKOMM: aus Asikkala
original - ALKUPKOMM: _a.d.E.
original - TALLKOMM: Miehen nimi puuttuu alkup.

30.5.1877 12.6.1877 aus Parikkala Schornsteinsfeger Peter Peters S. Härkänen Mathilda Lunden Edla Maria

original - ALKUPKOMM: + 22/2 78

Vetil - Veteli - döpta
Åren 1877 - 1877

Född Döpt By Gård Far Mor Barn

12.6.1877 18.6.1877 Jylhä inhyses Matts H:u Lisa 22 Edla Maria

Hälsningar Christina Nordback

June Pelo
30-09-05, 18:47
Thank you, Christina. I'll send all those names to Sven. Edla's children thought she came from Marttila, but that's all we know about her.


30-09-05, 18:57
Originally posted by June Pelo
... John Swan had a brother Herman, b. 1872, whose wife was Selma Sofia, so this Herman you found isn't John's brother...

Link to the Herman and Hilda above in Talko (http://www.finlander.eget.net/angraf/getperson.php?personID=I10609&tree=finlander)

30-09-05, 20:29
I answered June's query re Swan with particular regard to Edla on another list as follows:

Hi June,

The closest match (age, year of arrival and first name) in the Ellis Island archives seems to be Edla Altonen 23 years of age said to come from Vasa in Finland and arriving on September 4, 1900 with the S.S. City of Rome and going to join a brother in Hancock. It seems that a Maria Styf from Vasa was her co-passenger. One would expect Altonen to be correctly spelled Aaltonen.

Maria Styf was from Pörtom south of Vasa according to the passport records
in the Emigrant Register and port of departure was Vasa according to the
passenger list record.

They sailed on the Polaris on 18.08.1900. Edla Altonen's port of departure
is said to be Helsinki.

I now tried to pursue this particular trace that Edla possibly was from Vasa.

There is a Isac Aaltonen to Hancock in the EI database

First Name:Isac
Last Name: Aaltonen
Last Place of Residence:Finland
Date of Arrival: Dec 09, 1899
Age at Arrival: 33y
Gender: M
Marital Status: S
Ship of Travel:Tainui
Port of Departure:Glasgow
Manifest Line Number:0018

His destination is said to be Hancock in the original manifest.

There is a search result concerning a Isak Aaltonen from Vasa in the passport register

Detailed passport information

Last name Aaltonen
First names Isak Viktor
Other names *
Date of birth . .1876
Marital status *
Religion *
Occupation Räätälinulosoppinut
Home parish Vaasa
Province VAA
Passport date 03.10.1898
Passport number 1252
Passport valid (year:month) 5:0
Destination Ruotsi
Passport issued by VAA
Remarks Sotap. kelpaamaton.

The most pertinent information in this context is that this Isak Aaltonen (educated as a tailor) was from Vasa. He might have emigrated later on to America from Sweden or Finland. His age does not however match the Aaltonen in the Ellis Island database.

Searching for Isak Aaltonen in the Finnish passenger records provides one record consistent with the Ellis Island database: one Isac Altonen to Hancock who was 33 years of age

Detailed passenger information
Last name Aaltonen
First names Isac
Age or age group 33
Port of departure Hanko
Place of destination Hancock
State of destination MI
Country of destination USA
Price of ticket USD 54
Ship from Finland Polaris
Date of departure from Finland 18.11.1899
Ship from England *
Date of departure from England . .9999
Ocean Line Anchor Line
Port of departure in England *
List and page 10/82
Remarks *

Anyway - as far as I see - even if the passport record for an Isak Aaltonen from Vasa and the two other records of an Isac Aaltonen from an unknown place in Finland are not consistent as to his age (23 vs. 33) the next step would still be to engage genealogists in Vasa with access to church records to pursue this Aaltonen-from-Vasa trace to its fruitful or dead end.

June Pelo
01-10-05, 02:11

Thanks for your thorough search and I'll forward it to Sven - he'll be interested because he has often wondered if Edla Altonen could have gone to Hancock because it was indicated her daughter Ellen was there at one time. Jeanette has confirmed that the Styf name was in Pörtom about that time frame. Edla's children thought she was from Marttila, but HisKi records don't include 1877. According to Christina, there were many Edla Marias born in 1877 in Finland. So far we have no proof of Edla's birth year - only what her children have said.