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Karen Norwillo
19-01-06, 04:06
I've just completed entering pages of new data into my program and I've run across one entry that I have a serious problem with. As there is the same info on TALKO, maybe someone can help.
Johan Eriksson Storgård, born 1634 to Erik Markusson Säxjärvi and Lisa Mattsdotter. If this is correct, Lisa was only 10 and Erik 13 when he was born. Their other children's births start in 1652, which makes more sense. Does anyone have an answer? I received this info from Finland. There is also the addition of a set of twins, Annika and Katarina in 1677 that would have mother at age 53. Karen

Jaska Sarell
19-01-06, 15:35
His age at death on 15 Apr 1733 is given as 99 years. That's why birth year 1634 appears, but ages often were rather exaggerated for really senior people. I've "made" him 10 years younger, which can be too much as well.
I have sibblings Zacharias b. 1652, Erik b. 1654 and Maria b. 1655. They all appear in the same Keisari family book (vol. 1) as spouses of somebody belonging to that family. Also they give 1634 for Johan, and give parents' birth years 1621 and 1624 :confused:
I don't know about the twins you mention :(

Johan's family connection is correct anyway according to some court notes referred to in that book. First known child, Thomas, was born in 1671 - so 1640's is a good approximation for his birth.

:) Jaska

Karen Norwillo
19-01-06, 18:14
Thanks, Jaska. The info I received wasn't from what you sent me. Children give are Zakari 1652, Erik 1654, Maria 1655, Matts 1659 Sigfrid 1664, Katarina and Annika 1677. All born Vimpeli. The 18 year difference between Johan's birth and Zakari's bothered me too, as well as the 13 yr. gap between 1664 and 1677. Karen

June Pelo
19-01-06, 18:30
According to data I received from Finland, he was born 1643 in Vimpeli, Lappajärvi, d. 15 Apr 1733, Vimpeli, to Erik Markusson Sääksjärvi and Lisa Mattsdotter. Johan married 11 May 1668, Lappajärvi to Maria Persdotter Pynttäri, b. 1645, Alajärvi, d. 4 Mar 1716, Vimpeli. They had 8 children and I have names of 5:
Per, b. 1676
Margareta, b. 1679
Henrik, b. 1681
Sakari, b. 1683
Lisa, b. 1685

June

Jaska Sarell
19-01-06, 18:47
I can find Sigfred from HisKi burials, d. 2 Aug 1697 - age 33½ years. So that's OK.
Could you send the information you got to my email at jaskas*sci.fi and I try to check other sources, if possible. These are "side" persons for me, but maybe I can catch something from somewhere...

:) Jaska

P.S. Actually I made Johan 9 years younger, and many have the birth year 1643 accordingly. JAS

Jaska Sarell
19-01-06, 19:49
June,
The three others were:
Thomas b. 1 Nov 1671 d. 26 May 1695
- m. 25 Nov 1692 Lisa Mattsdr Lillstrang b. 11 Feb 1672 d. 15 Jul 1722
Anna b. 25 Dec 1673 d. 26 Jan 1744
- m. Erik Simonsson Lillsääksjärvi b. 28 Oct 1672
Maria b. 13 Jul 1689, moved off in 1708.

Only Anna's daughter Eva is known to have married, but no children there.
Who has an unidentified Maria Johansdotter that could match?

BTW. Perhaps Johan's relatives stated his age correctly in old style Finnish (like we still have numerals 11..19), but the vicar understood it incorrectly. Something like "nine to(wards) ninety" (89) as compared to "ninetynine" (99).

:) Jaska

Karen Norwillo
19-01-06, 22:14
Thanks to you both. Looks like maybe whoever recorded the date got a little dyslexic and transposed the 43 to 34. Makes more sense now. Karen

Jaska Sarell
19-01-06, 23:17
Karen, perhaps dyslexia is not the explanation here. Most researchers calculate the birth year, if age at death is given. In this case the simple calculus gives 1634 :confused:
There were no birth records to check the correct date. Lappajärvi happens to have rather early records (from 1663) compared to most other parishes.
The best we can do is to use common sense and best possible approximations and/or use ABT or BET statements in genealogy programs. Most important is to have the family connections right and there hopefully those few researchers that know the particular region well can help us.

:) Jaska

Karen Norwillo
20-01-06, 16:56
In checking my data further, with the additional info June gave, it seems Sakari Eriksson Sääksjärvi (Säxjärvi) married Maria Persdotter Pynttäri's sister Lisa.
All this new info I received provided ties to a very distant cousin, Matts Mattsson Granbacka, 18 Apr 1886, in US known as Rambacka. For this, I sat and entered 27 pages of data. Karen

June Pelo
20-01-06, 18:44
Karen, That's right. Maria and Lisa were sisters and came from a family of 9 children. A lot of the data can be found in the Keisari family data.

June