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diogenes99
01-12-06, 03:12
Since patronymic names and changing farm names were the norm, how does the "surname" project model help in Y testing for most Finnish genealogy?

jmmccart99
02-12-06, 05:32
Hi All,

A good point by diogenes99 - farmnames change although the Y-male descent continues unbroken. As from Hyytinen (pre-1600) to Sarell (today). Jaska can explain this if he wishes.

An interesting project for Finlander Forum members with Y-DNA results would be to post both the results and their Y-male descent lines.

If enough data is submitted, that could be compared to the more recent Finnish Y-DNA studies (references by JMM in a prior post).

Example, if Olavi Hyytinen (or his ancestors) were from Savo (as some evidence suggests), his modern day Y-line descendants more likely would show a "Savo" pattern - which is fairly unique (see articles cited).

If there is enough interest, I would be willing to co-ordinate the data.

PS. My own Y-DNA is here useless (southern Irish).

JMM

Jaska Sarell
02-12-06, 12:06
Hi!

As JMM points out, I would have no use of "surname Sarell" project. I know all four living male members pretty well (me, my son, my uncle and his son). Other Sarells in Finland have different origin, of which I know some.

Most (if not all) of those having Hyytinen name today descend from Olavi Hyytinen by the line: Olavi - son Simo - son Erkki - daughter Marketta, and then by her sons Matti and Erkki.

I have tried to follow many male lines, and surnames (in some cases still farm names) in late 19th century found include in 10th generation (a few 11th generation names in parenthesis): Rantakangas, Timo (->Hyytinen!), Harju, Ammesmäki, Timonen, Ahola, Piilikangas, Tarvonen (-> Åkerren, Dahlgård, Dahlfelt, Törner), Höglund, Westerlund, Nyman, Löfs, Löfhjelm, Sack, Storgård, Östman, Hellman, Lillmåns, Påvall, Forsman, Snellman, Stormåns (-> Smeds), Mattson (& Anderson, both in Michigan), Högnäs, Backman, Sarell, Sundquist, Holm, Finholm, Ahlö, Forsell, Renlund, Långbacka. Lytts.

See also my homepage (http://www.sci.fi/~jaskas/)

Just try to figure out the sense of surname based DNA project here :D

:) Jaska

diogenes99
02-12-06, 20:48
I hope someone will start an active Finland DNA project covering all of Finland for Y and mtDNA. A larger area than the Swedish-speaker regions would reveal more patterns and attract more participants. Laura Hayden suggested contacting potential Finland project members via mitosearch and Ysearch. I would start this project but I have so little knowledge of the subject I feel someone else should coordinate this.

jmmccart99
03-12-06, 02:51
Hi, Hei, Hej,

The basic idea for a Y-DNA project is not complex. The data needed are:

1. List of Y-male line ancestors (names, dates, location and any known migratory history).

2. Copy of Y-DNA research report, which will provide the haplogroup and the specific markers.

Both could be attached as .RTF files.

Here is how it could work. Assume we could get 20 lines going back to 5 or 6 male ancestors who lived at Lappajärvi ca. 1600. We would then have a good idea of the Y-haplogroups for that place and time. Do they compare with the larger (more modern) Finnish database for Ostrobothnia ? Etc.

So, on to other locations and times. Basically, a big QuatroPro or Excel project.

JMM

rholstrom
22-02-09, 20:47
I presently have the book "Daniel Larsson och Brita Sigfridsdotter" by Solfrid Cederberg. I am a total male decendent of Daniel Larsson as are my two sons, my cousin and his son. If I do a Y dna test what will the results show?

kivinen1
22-02-09, 23:19
I presently have the book "Daniel Larsson och Brita Sigfridsdotter" by Solfrid Cederberg. I am a total male decendent of Daniel Larsson as are my two sons, my cousin and his son. If I do a Y dna test what will the results show?

Well, since you've not listed Daniel Larsson's haplogroup, I'm not sure what to tell you.

I will STRONGLY suggest that you use Family Tree DNA vs any other company to do your testing. Many of the other companies do not to SNP testing, only STR testing.

STR testing is a must for genetic genealogy purposes, but if your haplogroup is anything other than a version of I1, you'll need to do SNP testing as well.

Good luck. Don't forget to join the Finland DNA Project through FTDNA.:D

harrysme
23-02-09, 08:19
I was a bit disappointed to the result of the cheapest test ($99) for both paternal and maternal line. Most of my "relatives" lived in Poland (maternal) and Netherlands (paternal). So the haplotypes must be several thousands years old and maybe 1 % of European population are my paternal or maternal "relatives" at that level. You must be prepared to pay several hundreds to get something that may be useful for genealogy.

Well, interesting to know anyhow.

Harry

kivinen1
23-02-09, 09:47
As an aside, while I have not found any direct mtDNA or yDNA connections via the DNA route.

I have, however, increased my paper trail by at least 500 names because of people that tested and listed their most distant known ancestor.

While those ancestors they and I share are NOT direct y or mt ancestors, they are still ancestors and for those that are more interested in filling out their paper trails to the fullest, it has been a wonderful tool.

Autosomal ancestors are still our ancestors, no matter how you slice it.

The y chromosome and the mitochondrial chromosome are just small parts of what has "made" us.

So, it will depend on your quest. Only looking for direct male or female lines or all relatives are important?

rholstrom
25-03-09, 02:07
I have done the Y33 test with ancestry.com and found that I am haplogroup I1. It seems in order to join the Finland DNA Project through FTDNA you need to get the test done through them? As I have said I know my paternal line back to Daniel Larsson.


Well, since you've not listed Daniel Larsson's haplogroup, I'm not sure what to tell you.

I will STRONGLY suggest that you use Family Tree DNA vs any other company to do your testing. Many of the other companies do not to SNP testing, only STR testing.

STR testing is a must for genetic genealogy purposes, but if your haplogroup is anything other than a version of I1, you'll need to do SNP testing as well.

Good luck. Don't forget to join the Finland DNA Project through FTDNA.:D

kivinen1
25-03-09, 02:27
I have done the Y33 test with ancestry.com and found that I am haplogroup I1. It seems in order to join the Finland DNA Project through FTDNA you need to get the test done through them? As I have said I know my paternal line back to Daniel Larsson.

Robert,

Yes, you would have to become a member of FTDNA, and then you could join the Finland Project(s).

There is a way to have your "results" transferred to FTDNA, and I think they will only require some test after doing so. Might be worth it.

What is your y-search ID? Mine is QM78H, and I too am I1. I am I1*-AS, and I have the following results for SNP testing: L22- M161- M170+ M21- M223- M227- M253+ M258+ M26- M307+ M72- P109- P19+ P259- P30+ P37.2- P38+

rholstrom
26-03-09, 00:31
Ancestry shows only the DYS numbers with the number of repeating sequences. I have looked at wikipedia and I am very similar to I1-AS, I1-N, and I1-uN1. I do not match any exactly but am only one or two DYS repeats off on just a few DYS numbers.


Robert,

Yes, you would have to become a member of FTDNA, and then you could join the Finland Project(s).

There is a way to have your "results" transferred to FTDNA, and I think they will only require some test after doing so. Might be worth it.

What is your y-search ID? Mine is QM78H, and I too am I1. I am I1*-AS, and I have the following results for SNP testing: L22- M161- M170+ M21- M223- M227- M253+ M258+ M26- M307+ M72- P109- P19+ P259- P30+ P37.2- P38+

kivinen1
26-03-09, 01:04
Hi Robert,

If you don't have a y-search account, can you be found in ancestry's pages? If so, what surname did you use there?

Or, you could list your DYS values here, just be sure to put both the position and value.

rholstrom
26-03-09, 14:09
I have an ancestry y-search account under "Robert Edsel Holstrom". My DYS's are:

DYS19a =14, DYS385a = 14, DYS385b = 14, DYS388 = 14, DYS389I = 12, DYS389II = 28, DYS390 = 22, DYS391 = 10, DYS392 = 11, DYS393 = 13, DYS426 = 11, DYS438 = 10, DYS439 = 13, DYS441 = 17, DYS447 = 24, DYS448 = 20, DYS449 = 30, DYS454 = 11, DYS455 = 8, DYS458 = 15, DYS460 = 10, DYS461 = 12, DYS463 = 21, DYS464a = 12, DYS464b = 14, DYS464c = 15, DYS464d = 17, YCAIIa = 19, YCAIIb = 21, Y-GATAH4.1 = 21

This is all the DYSs I received from the $60.00 test. It is a good starting point to verify my ancestry but I already know back to my paternal 8X GGF. I believe that the I1 results verifies that my paternal ancestors came from Sweden to Finland and not from Russia.


Hi Robert,

If you don't have a y-search account, can you be found in ancestry's pages? If so, what surname did you use there?

Or, you could list your DYS values here, just be sure to put both the position and value.

June Pelo
26-03-09, 16:42
It's a pity that many Finngen members don't read Finlander Forum mail because there have been discussions about DNA by Finngeners from time to time. Their input might be of interest to the Forum. With all the changes going on with Finngen, I can't search their archives for names of some of the people - the search function is no longer available. One of the Finngeners sent me the results of their test and it listed names of compatible people. At the very bottom I found the name of one of my distant cousins, and when he had his DNA tested, her family name wasn't listed, so he knew nothing about her. I calculated they were 7th cousins, plus 14 other links.

kivinen1
26-03-09, 19:44
I have an ancestry y-search account under "Robert Edsel Holstrom". My DYS's are:

DYS19a =14, DYS385a = 14, DYS385b = 14, DYS388 = 14, DYS389I = 12, DYS389II = 28, DYS390 = 22, DYS391 = 10, DYS392 = 11, DYS393 = 13, DYS426 = 11, DYS438 = 10, DYS439 = 13, DYS441 = 17, DYS447 = 24, DYS448 = 20, DYS449 = 30, DYS454 = 11, DYS455 = 8, DYS458 = 15, DYS460 = 10, DYS461 = 12, DYS463 = 21, DYS464a = 12, DYS464b = 14, DYS464c = 15, DYS464d = 17, YCAIIa = 19, YCAIIb = 21, Y-GATAH4.1 = 21

This is all the DYSs I received from the $60.00 test. It is a good starting point to verify my ancestry but I already know back to my paternal 8X GGF. I believe that the I1 results verifies that my paternal ancestors came from Sweden to Finland and not from Russia.
Robert,

You and I are a genetic distance of 6 comparing at 28 markers. Ancestry has a few markers that FTDNA does not do on their standard testing panels.

I have 70 FTDNA markers, and I entered your data into ysearch.org and came up with these:

[NOTE:] be sure to leave the page settings as they are, and remember to enter the "Captcha" words before hitting "search"


The challenge response words that you typed did not match or your search pass expired.
Please respond to the challenge below.

Please enter the words you see in the box, in order and separated by a space. Doing so helps prevent automated programs from abusing this service.

If you are not sure what the words are, click the reload button next to the distorted words.

http://www.ysearch.org/search_results.asp?uid=&freeentry=true&L1=13&L2=22&L3=14&L4=0&L5=10&L6=14&L7=14&L8=11&L9=14&L10=13&L11=12&L12=11&L13=28&L14=15&L15=0&L16=0&L17=8&L18=11&L19=24&L20=0&L21=20&L22=30&L23=12&L24=14&L25=15&L26=17&L27=0&L28=0&L29=0&L30=10&L31=0&L32=19&L33=21&L34=0&L35=0&L36=0&L37=0&L38=0&L39=0&L40=0&L41=10&L54=0&L55=0&L56=0&L57=0&L58=0&L59=0&L60=0&L61=0&L62=0&L63=0&L42=0&L64=0&L65=0&L66=0&L67=0&L68=0&L69=0&L70=0&L71=0&L49=0&L72=0&L73=0&L51=0&L74=0&L75=0&L76=0&L77=0&L78=0&L79=0&L80=0&L43=12&L44=0&L45=0&L46=0&L47=0&L48=17&L50=0&L52=0&L53=21&L81=0&L82=0&L83=0&L84=0&L85=0&L86=0&L87=0&L88=0&L89=0&L90=0&L91=0&L92=0&L93=0&L94=0&L95=0&L96=0&L97=0&L98=0&L99=0&L100=0&min_markers=28&mismatches_max=6&mismatch_type=sliding&mismatches_sliding_starting_marker=20&recaptcha_challenge_field=02QwOVb1dYdOfboDNU6uW4Jt wbBpu59aFq1pOvJvKJwCt6siHix44den3eL8tz2BjHqU5H7okH Zd-dSBsSujKcXatvw3uCkm_0ToqdvAjsFfIef0jeqEaKoMoxHn4uK 4HUBgDFpHVJeib_IEa6k2w5nhe8-B8RHwUBiNkDvOWZAXJxMwoRVDwOQcA7ggIq3MP_l8eWpo2L_6V KNbtLcxupOm_YeRMkLPsqTXiJ8hTI2TJY1qqy6sWoTJJaH4N6F nU5X7mWsgM0Mgnj8CPXuPd1gus9dcIB&recaptcha_response_field=Tuesdays+op-&haplo=&region=


Unfortunately, at that lower number of DYS, indicators will be in many regions.

You can see that the Finns line up pretty well compared to "others".

Denmark and NW Germany are givens, since it is the likely birth place of I1-AS.

kivinen1
26-03-09, 19:59
It's a pity that many Finngen members don't read Finlander Forum mail because there have been discussions about DNA by Finngeners from time to time. Their input might be of interest to the Forum. With all the changes going on with Finngen, I can't search their archives for names of some of the people - the search function is no longer available. One of the Finngeners sent me the results of their test and it listed names of compatible people. At the very bottom I found the name of one of my distant cousins, and when he had his DNA tested, her family name wasn't listed, so he knew nothing about her. I calculated they were 7th cousins, plus 14 other links.
June,

While I realize it is not the same. There is the Finland DNA Project.

There is also a forum for members there, and discussion is "low" at the moment, but we're hoping for more participation too.

Here is the link: http://fidna.info/pmw/

June Pelo
26-03-09, 23:52
I'm not into DNA myself, but thought I'd put in my two-cents worth. My family line ends with me - my brother was the last male and he had no sons.

kivinen1
27-03-09, 00:13
Same here.

My I1*-AS y-DNA dies with me.

My U5b2 mtDNA will live on in the form of the children of my Great-nieces and my cousins daughter.

June Pelo
27-03-09, 00:28
My father was the oldest son of the oldest son, and his father was the oldest son of the oldest son, etc. My paternal male line went back to c1400 and my maternal male line went back to c1480.