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Kaarina
20-01-07, 20:09
Hej,
Påffuel Påffuelsson Cancu, Cankår ,Kankkonen f. ungefär 1538 i Rantasalmi, Evijärvi, jag har ett barn till honom, Clemet Påffuelsson Canck f. ungefär 1562 Evijärvi, i byn Kerttuala.
Han Skulle ha haft ett barn till, Grels Påffuelsson Kankkonen f. ungefär 1560-65, stämmer detta. Vet någon???
Pirjo.

June Pelo
20-01-07, 22:20
Pål Pålsson Kankkonen is my 10th great grandfather. He was married to Kerttu and they had a son Clemet married to Malin Johansdotter. I don't have any data about a son Grels Clemetsson.

June

Kaarina
20-01-07, 22:48
Hi,
I find this webside:
www.masterpage.midata.fi/GENE/proband/ps160/ps160_165.htm
Påffuel Påffuelsson Cancu, Cankår 1538 is too my ancestors, and too Clemet Påffuelsson Canck,1562 and his son , Påffuel Clemetsson Canck b. about 1600 Evijärvi d. Sastmåla/Merikarvia.
Pirjo.

Kaarina
20-01-07, 22:54
Hi,
You can find this webside: Google: grels grelsson kankkonen.
Pirjo.

Jaska Sarell
20-01-07, 23:28
Nånstans jag undrar varifrån dessa gamla detaljer ursprungligen kommer från...

I sometimes wonder what's the original source of some those old details :confused:

Descending from Kankkonen the same way as June.

:) Jaska

P.S.
That seemed to be Hasse's site :D
Hej Hasse, har du någon källa, annan än andra forskare menar hag.
JAS

Kaarina
20-01-07, 23:36
hej,
det kommer från Ansa Huhtala, släktforskare från Pori, finland.
pirjo.

jmmccart99
14-02-07, 06:38
Hei,

I ran into Grels and his progeny a while ago on the same webpages. My lines follow Jaska's from #8232 Paavo Paavonpoika Kankkonen, down to our common ancestors ## 64-65 (by then Påvals-Forsbacka).

I tried Googling Paavo Paavonpoika Kankkonen to see if any Finnish sites turned up a Grels as Paavo's son. No. So, it seems the line speaks only in Swedish :D

There is a line from Grels Grelsson Kankkonen (no father; and so not linked to Grels Pålsson Kankkonen ?) at

http://www.riska.org/RiskaV31/pbb16c290.html

-------------------------------------------------
While searching Paavo, I found a line which was as follows:

http://personal.inet.fi/koti/isomaensukuseura/html/137.htm


Esipolvikaavio: Klemetti Paavonpoika Kankkonen

1. Paavo Paavonpoika Kankkonen
Lappajärven Kerttuankylän Kankkosen tilallinen vv. 1563 - 1597.
k. 1597

2. Klemetti Paavonpoika Kankkonen
Lappajärven Kerttuankylän Kankkosen tilallinen vv. 1598 - 1636
s. 1562
k. 1636 Evijärvi
puo.
Malin Juhontytär
s. 1574
k. 1669 Evijärvi

3. Klemetti Klemetinpoika Kankkonen
s. 1592
k. 24.12.1677
puo.
Valpuri Tuomaantytär
s. 1592
k. 1677 Evijärvi

4. Reetta Klemetintytär Kankkonen
s. 1616 Evijärvi, Kerttua
k. 11.3.1703 Kortesjärvi
puo.
Lauri Pietarinpoika Storwis
s. 1613 Lappajärvi
k. 5.4.1693 Lappajärvi, Kortesjärvi


Pietari (Pekka) Storwis
puo.
Elsa Harhalainen
s. 1605 Laukaa
k. 1688 Kortesjärvi

5. Gabriel Larsson Wijsala
s. 1656 Lappajärvi
k. 4.12.1749 Lappajärvi

No sources cited.

Now, both Jaska and I have a common Reetta Klemetintytär Kankkonen (#1029), b. 1634; d. 30 Mar 1708.

Was ist das ? Two Britas in the same family ?

Anybody have an explanation for this "elusive Brita" ?


-------------------------------------------
I am attaching my notes on this family, which includes the kitchen sink and the icebox as well. It is in .doc format, since it seems the new webpage does not allow the universal .rtf format. Can't use .txt format because my file has too much formatting which would be lost.

JMM

jmmccart99
14-02-07, 06:59
PS.

The .doc file attachment will not open in Windows XP Wordpad. It will open in Windows 98SE Wordpad - and in the full MS Word for Windows, MS Office, etc.

Hasse
14-02-07, 09:26
...It is in .doc format, since it seems the new webpage does not allow the universal .rtf format.

Now rtf is accepted as it was before - and .doc is not - as I like to have it. For some reason the update didn't take care of remembering this setting.

Hasse

Hasse
14-02-07, 09:39
Nånstans jag undrar varifrån dessa gamla detaljer ursprungligen kommer från
...
That seemed to be Hasse's site :D
Hej Hasse, har du någon källa, annan än andra forskare menar hag.

Jaska,

Just saw your message when browsing this thread - sorry for not replying earlier.

As you know all the old information - and I haven't personally had the chance of seeing originals that old. Just browsed my file and in many of these generations and neighbouring connections I have references to K rokfors. Probably the link you are referencing to is not from Hasse K's material since I haven't registered that as reference in my database. Hasse K's listings doesn't have this link at least.

Either it is a misstake from my side or I have got the information in some other collections, but in my digital version of the material I had no reference. Have to try to dig the bookshelf's material and see where the information has originated from.
Until one can find a good enough source it of course has to be considered as not true. I'll remove the link from my off-line material until possibly finding the reference in my papers.

If I turns out that I have distributed erroneous data, please accept my appologies!

Jaska Sarell
14-02-07, 10:00
JMM: Was ist das ? Two Britas in the same family ?

Aber nix!
The older one (b. 1616) was Margareta or Greta (fi: Marketta or Reetta)
The younger one (b. 1634) was Brita (fi: Riitta).

:) Jaska

Jaska Sarell
14-02-07, 10:18
Hasse,
I know we all have that kind of data of early days, copies of copies from others :confused:
I'm not blaming anyone, just wondering.

:) Jaska

Hasse
14-02-07, 10:56
Hasse,
I know we all have that kind of data of early days, copies of copies from others :confused:
I'm not blaming anyone, just wondering.

Yes, I understand. I'm also wondering where I could have got the information. I have quite a few snipplets of information in my files without proper reference "the way I try to do just now". Usually I'm trying to be fairly exact when in the mood of collecting "own" ancestors from the sources that are available, but perhaps in my younger days... I'm pretty sure i must have seen it in some material sent to me, but anything is possible. Maybe one easy click by mistake in the genealogy program...?

However, these old records are anyhow quite shaky, as the current Finland at that time didn't keep that many proper historical records, as far as I can understand. And it is probably not the only error in "my" files.

June Pelo
14-02-07, 20:25
I see that Jaska has corrected the problem re two Reetas. So all I can now say is that Påhl Påhlsson Kankkonen, ca 1530-1597, was my 10th great grandfather. Grels Grelsson Kankkonen, ca 1570- was my 8th great grandfather. Most of my data came from Hans-Erik Krokfors who traveled with the Caino-Torp committee when they were gathering data for their book about those families.

June

jmmccart99
15-02-07, 02:17
Hi,

Thanks to Jaska for a quick Finnish lesson in what I should have known (Riitta vs Reetta). That having been said, there are (I think) still some problems with what I found on the Net (in the two Finnish genealogies). These don't affect my lines, but I will have to look more closely and then re-post the problems and my questions.

The idea being to cleanup my data on these people.

Right now, I have to finish a separate email to Hasse.

JMM

PS - also thanks to Hasse for ridding the .doc format and restoring .rtf.

jmmccart99
16-02-07, 05:42
Hi,

Well, I have Reetta and Riitta straight as names; but the two Net genealogies do conflict on who Reetta's father was. What follows is a summary of what I have (omitting exact dates and places; and a bunch of my editorial material and speculation).

Grels Grelsson's ancestry is a more interesting question.

------------------------------------------------
Genealogy References:

ref: JS = Jaska Sarell 29 Nov & 1 Dec 1998 (tafel for my grandmother)
ref. hk = Hasse Krokfors 23 Nov 1998 (tafel for my grandmother)
ref. ps160 =
http://masterpage.midata.fi/GENE/Proband/ps160/ps160_166.htm
(and linked pages after that)
ref. Riska =
http://www.riska.org/RiskaV31/pbb16c290.html
(and linked pages after that)
ref. Jormo =
http://koti.japo.fi/~jkhpuro/jorma.htm
[one big "Suka" - 2.5 MB - maybe 10 min.+ to open with a 56k connection]

General Reference (for some farm dates below, some family & farm history):

Aulis Oja, Merikarvian Kankkujen alkuperä, Genos 39 (1968), s. 25; which in turn cites to:

[1] Aulis Oja, Pietarsaaren ylämaan eli Lappajärven kappelin talot vuosina 1543-1663 (Kytösavut VIII, 1958); and [2] Aulis Oja, Uudistalollinen Paavo Paavonpoika Kankkonen (Järviseudun Joulu 1964).

For the most part, there seems little substantial conflict as to dates.


Generation 1
==============================
1. Paavo Paavonpoika Kankkonen (Påhl Påhlsson Kankkonen) (ref: JS, hk 3624)
(ca.1530-??; prob. bet. 1564-1598), talollinen-isäntä (1564-1599), Kankkosen tilallinen (1563-1597)
mar.
"Kerttu" (ref: hk 3625)
(ca.1540-??)

Child(ren):

1.1. Klemetti Paavonpoika Kankkonen (Clemet Påhlsson Kankkonen) (ref: JS, hk 1812) (1562-1636) [see below].

1.2. Grels Pålsson Kankkonen ? (ps160) [see below].

Note: ps160 cites for Paavo (Påhl) (HASKRO 11328); for Kerttu (HASKRO 11329). There is no HASKRO (I assume = hk ?) ref. for Grels Pålsson Kankkonen.


Generation 2
==============================
1.1. Klemetti Paavonpoika Kankkonen (Clemet Påhlsson Kankkonen) (ref: JS, hk 1812)
(1562-1636), talollinen-isäntä (1598-1636), Kankkosen (no. 2) tilallinen (1598-1636).
mar.
Malin Juhontytär // (ref. from JS, aft.1998; hk1813 "NN g.")
(1574-1669)

Child(ren):

1.1.1. Klemetti Klemetinpoika Kankkonen (Clemet Clemetsson Kankkonen) (ref. JS, hk 906) (1592-1677) [see below].

1.1.2. Paavo Klemetinpoika Kankkonen (ca.1590-ca.1671), talollinen (Kankkonen 1620-1628; if so, prob. partner with his father); talollinen (Kankku, Merikarvia, Alakylü 1641-1671). Paavo moved to Uusikaarlepyy (Nylarleby), where he became a burgher (ref. Aulis Oja & below):


R. Harju, Merikarvian talonhaltijaluetteloita (1998-01-10; Julkaistu Satakunnan Sukututkimusseuran 35-vuotisjulkaisussa 1999).



Kankku (Merikarvia): 1641-1671, Paavo Klemetinp Kankkonen Evijärven Kerttuan kylästä; 1671-1708, pojanp Lauri Tuomaanp, pso Anna Tuomaantr Riispyy; 1709-1716, pka Antti Laurinp, pso Kaisa Juhontr Jumppi; 1717-1723, Juho Heikinp Bäkki Honkajärveltä, pso Maria Heikintr Lankoski; 1724-1740, Juho Laurinp Kankku, pso Elina Tuomaantr; 1740-1769, vävy Iisakki Heikinp Knuussi, pso Maria Juhontr. I have nothing more on this line, which seems to end on this farm with Paavo, unless Lauri was his grandson.

1.1.3. Knutti Klemetinpoika Kankkonen (ca.1600-aft.1669; ref. Jorma, Taulu 60 has "s. 1610 noin"), Kankkosen (no. 2) tilallinen (1663-1669; prob. partner with brother Klemetti).

1.1.4.? Marketta Klemetintytär Kankkonen (1616/or/1626-1703) (ref. Jorma, Taulu 60 & Taulu 58)


Taulu 60


XIII Klemetti Kankkonen, s. 1562.


Puoliso: Malin Juhontytär. (Taulu 58), s. 1574, k. 14.3.1669 Evijärvi, Kankkonen (d. Oculi).


Lapset:


Klemetti, s. 1592. Tauluun 1044


Knuutti, talollinen, s. 1610 noin, Evijärvi, Kankoin


Marketta, s. 1626. Tauluun 58



Taulu 58


XII Lauri Pietarinpoika Viisala, (Taulusta 59) , talollinen, s. 1623 Kortesjärvi, Viisala, k. 5.4.1693 Kortesjärvi, Viisala, hukkui Purmojokeen. Vanhemmat (Taulusta 59)


Puoliso: Marketta Klemetintytär Kankkonen. (Taulu 57) [ref. to son Lauri, s. 1664. Tauluun 57], emäntä, s. 1626 (1616) Evijärvi, Kankkonen, k. 11.3.1703 Kortesjärvi, Viisala.


Vanhemmat (Taulusta 60)


Lapset: (8 kids, inter alia)


Gabriel, talollinen, s. 1656 Kortesjärvi, Viisala, k. 4.12.1749 Kortesjärvi, Viisala

Note: This Marketta (Reetta) is the same person as 1.1.1.5 Reetta in Generation 3 (who is claimed as a d/o Klemetti Klemetinpoika Kankkonen and Valpuri Tuomaantytär !!)

---------------------------------------
1.2 Grels Pålsson Kankkonen ? (ref. ps160) (??-??; f. ca. 1550 based on ca.1530 for father and ca.1570 for son). No spouse; no sources.


http://masterpage.midata.fi/GENE/Proband/ps160/ps160_165.htm



Ansedel


Namn Grels Pålsson Kankkonen, 10G Morfar eller Farfar


Far Pål Pålsson Kankkonen (ca1530-)


Mor Kerttu


Partners


Barn Grels Grelsson (1570-) [see below]
Generation 3
======================================
1.1.1. Klemetti Klemetinpoika Kankkonen (Clemet Clemetsson Kankkonen) (ref. JS, hk 906)
(1592-1677; from JS, Sukupuu - JAS, same as spouse ??)
mar.
Valpuri Tuomaantytär // (ref. JS, hk 907)
(1592-1677; from JS, Sukupuu - JAS, same as spouse ??)

Child(ren) [4 with some history that I have]:

1.1.1.1 Johan Clemetsson Kankkonen (ca.1620-aft.1685), senare Kanckos i Ytteresse, huvudman där 1652-1656, 1665-1685; see Edvin Brännbacka, The Search for Origin and Definition of Place Names (trans. June Pelo, from Net 2003). No further research.

1.1.1.2. Jakob Clemetsson Kankkonen (ca.1640-??), mar. "N.N.", with a dau. Maria Jakobsdotter Kankkonen (ca.1665-??). No further research.

1.1.1.3. Tomas Clemetsson Skrubbacka- Kankkonen (1640-1697) (ref. ps162). No further research beyond what starts with webpage below.


------------------------------------------------------------


http://masterpage.midata.fi/GENE/Proband/ps162/ps162_455.htm



Ansedel


Namn Tomas Clemetsson Skrubbacka-Kankkonen, 8G Morfar eller Farfar


Född 1640


Död 1697 Ålder: 57


Far Clemet Clemetsson Kankkonen (1592-1661)


Mor Valborg Thomasdr.


Partners


1 Lucia Mattsdr., 8G Mormor eller Farmor


Född 1623


Död 1683 Ålder: 60


Barn


Olof Tomasson Finnilä-Lillskrubb (1675-1735)


Noter för Tomas Clemetsson Skrubbacka- Kankkonen (HASKRO 1416)


Noter för Lucia Mattsdr. (Partner 1) (HASKRO 1417)

1.1.1.4. Riitta Klemetintytär Kankkonen (Brita Clemetsdotter Kankkonen) (ref: JS, hk 453) (1634-1708); mar. Paavo Mikonpoika Söderkultalahti (Påhl Mickelsson Söderkultalahti (ref: JS, hk 452) (1639-1699; s/o Mikko Matinpoika Kultalahti and Brita Maununtytär //), Kultalahden tilallinen 1686-1688; Söder-Kultalahden ensimmäinen tilallinen 1689-1690. >> JAS, JMM, inter alia multi.

1.1.1.5.? Reetta Klemetintytär Kankkonen (1616-1703)


-----------------------------------------------------------------


http://personal.inet.fi/koti/isomaensukuseura/html/137.htm



Esipolvikaavio: Klemetti Paavonpoika Kankkonen



[1. Paavo & 2. Klemetti; details omitted - see above posts in this thread]



gen 3. Klemetti Klemetinpoika Kankkonen; s. 1592; k. 24.12.1677


puo.


Valpuri Tuomaantytär; s. 1592; k. 1677 Evijärvi


lap.


Reetta Klemetintytär Kankkonen



gen 4. Reetta Klemetintytär Kankkonen; s. 1616 Evijärvi, Kerttua; k. 11.3.1703 Kortesjärvi


puo.


Lauri Pietarinpoika Storwis [Pietari (Pekka) Storwis & Elsa Harhalainen]; s. 1613 Lappajärvi; k. 5.4.1693 Lappajärvi, Kortesjärvi


lap.


gen 5. Gabriel Larsson Wijsala; s. 1656 Lappajärvi; k. 4.12.1749 Lappajärvi
This Reetta is the same person as 1.1.4. Marketta in Generation 2.


------------------------------------------------------------


According to Jorma, there were a number of other children, including a Marketta (Reetta) s.n. 1645 (b. ca. 1645).



http://koti.japo.fi/~jkhpuro/jorma.htm






Taulu 1044


XII Klemetti Klemetinpoika Kankkonen, (Taulusta 60) , s. 1592 Evijärvi, Kankkonen, k. 24.12.1677 Evijärvi.


Vanhemmat (Taulusta 60)


Puoliso: Valpuri Tuomaantytär. (Taulu 1040) [ref. to our Riitta] , s. 1592, k. 24.12.1677 Evijärvi, Kankkonen.


Lapset:


[B]Marketta, s. n. 1645 Evijärvi, Kankkonen


Klemetti, sotilas, s. 1620 noin


Lauri, sotilas, s. 1620 Evijärvi, Kankoin, k. 00.03.1711


Juho, bonde, s. 1620 noin, k. 1680 Esse, Ytteresse, Kankkonen


Tuomas, s. 1640 noin, Evijärvi, k. 24.12.1675 Evijärvi


Brita, s. 1634. Tauluun 1040 [ref. to our Riitta]


Jaakko, s. 1620 noin, k. 1675 Evijärvi, Kankkonen (d 24 trin)


Matti, s. 1630 noin Evijärvi, Kankoin


Valpuri, s. 1632 Evijärvi


Markus, itsellinen, s. 1640, k. 1693 Evijärvi, Kerttu (d. 8 Epiphan)
-------------------------------------------------------------
1.2.1. Grels Grelsson Kankkonen (ca.1570-??). There have to be many sources for this guy. This is what the webpage in question has to say:


----------------------------------------------------------


http://masterpage.midata.fi/GENE/Proband/ps07/ps07_094.htm



Grels Grelsson Kankkonen, Född 1570, Rödsö, Karleby


Flyttade från Evijärvi till Rödsö i.b.p 1600-talet.


Barn


Olof Grelsson (ca1610-)


Brita Grelsdr. (1631-)

================================================== ===
Here are some thoughts (not dogmatic) on Reetta and Grels:

1. Reetta (Marketta) Klemetintytär (born ca. 1616 or 1626). Choice of fathers are Klemetti Paavonpoika Kankkonen (1562-1636), who was 54 in 1616 and 64 in 1626; and Klemetti Klemetinpoika Kankkonen (1592-1677), who was 24 in 1616 and 34 in 1626. Either are possible from the datings I have; maybe Klemetti Klemetinpoika is more likely. I suppose this cannot be resolved except by a record showing parentage (probably hard to find one from that era).

2. The ancestry of Grels Grelsson Kankkonen is a more interesting question, since it could add a couple of generations for his descendants.

The suggested scenario (Paavo, b. ca.1530; Grels, b. ca.1550; Grels, b. ca.1570) is really "tight" - though possible. However, what if Paavo had a brother Grels (b. ca. 1540, let us say), who could be Grels Grelsson's father.

Grels' Kankkonen-Evijärvi link is based on the quote "Flyttade från Evijärvi till Rödsö i.b.p 1600-talet"; and if that is good history (I assume, but do not know, it is). If so, he most likely came from Paavo or a relative.

Perhaps, the answer might be found in Aulis Oja's 1958 and 1964 articles, which I do not have. His 1968 article suggests Paavo Antinpoika Kankkonen or Paavo Martinpoika Kankkonen as the father of Paavo Paavonpoika Kankkonen.

Has anyone else done any research into these Savo prople ?

JMM

================================================== ===
[Excerpt]
Merikarvian Kankkujen alkuperä

Aulis Oja
......
Evijärven Kankkonen on tullut maankuuluksi siitä, että sen tiluksilla nykyään sijaitsee Väinö Tuomaalan perustama juhlava Väinöntalo eli Järviseudun museo. [1]

Kerttuan kylään vuonna 1564 asettunut Paavo Paavonpoika Kankkonen puolestaan kuului savolaisiin uudisasukkaisiin.

Hänen isänsä voisi olla joko Juvan pitäjässä 1560-luvulla asunut loinen Paavo Antinpoika Kankkonen tai Rantasalmen pitäjän Putkilahden neljänneksen Osikonmäen kymmeneksessä samaan aikaan asunut talollinen Paavo Martinpoika Kankkonen. [2]

Viitteet

[1] Aulis Oja, Pietarsaaren ylämaan eli Lappajärven kappelin talot vuosina 1543-1663 (Kytösavut VIII, 1958).

- Merikarvian henkikirjassa 1650 mainittu Paavo Kankkusen veli Klemetti on selvästi ollut hänen poikansa eikä veljensä.

[2] Aulis Oja, Uudistalollinen Paavo Paavonpoika Kankkonen (Järviseudun Joulu 1964).

jmmccart99
16-02-07, 08:47
Well,

Here is another reference to the early Kankkonens. Väinö Tuomala, Kytösavut V, Evijärven Kankkosen talon vaiheita 1562 - 1709. No publisher or date.

See:

http://www.kolumbus.fi/asko.niskala/genealogy/sukututkimus2.htm

Maybe someone with access to a Finnish library could do a look-up.

Also see,

http://www.kolumbus.fi/asko.niskala/genealogy/sukututkimus21.htm

Farm was a decent size (1¼ mtl). Also a little bit of history on the "land rush" of the Savo people - map shows the migration paths.


JMM

Jaska Sarell
16-02-07, 11:38
Some time ago I faced a problem here.
Most researchers have Clemet Clemetsson Kankkonen and his wife Walborg Thomasdotter as buried 24 Dec 1677. HisKi gives only first name Clemet.
Strang family book gives Riitta Klemetintytär Kankkonens parents names as Klemetti Klemetinpoika Kankkonen b. 1592 and Leena Juhontytär (Lena Johansdotter).
Local history book Järviseudun hstoria I lists Kankkonen farmers as:
1563-1597 Paavo Kankkonen
1598-1636 Klemetti Paavonpoika, son
1637-1662 Klemetti Klemetinpoika, son
1663-1669 Knuutti Klemetinpoika, brother?
1670-1676 Klemetti Knuutinpoika, son
1677-1688 Olavi Reonpoika, Klemetti Klemetinpoika as "sytingsman"
1689-1694 Kaappo Laurinpoika, nephew
1695-1698 Kaappo Jaakonpoika
1699-1705 Kaappo Kaaponpoika, son
1706-1719 Kaappo Jaakonpoika, again
1723-1724 Jaakko Kaaponpoika, son

At least around 1700 there is an error as to Kaappo Kaaponpoika (Gabriel Gabrielsson). That should be all the time Gabriel Jakobsson according to communion book 1694-1710. Maybe there are other misinterpretations of mantal records earlier? Gabriel Larsson? Otherwise it might have been Clemet Cnutsson who died in 1677 and Clemet Clemetsson overlived him. And who was Olavi Reonpoika (Olof Grelsson)?

These secondary sources are surely not so reliable and only seem to add confusion :confused:
But maybe the original mantal records do the same :rolleyes:

:) Jaska

June Pelo
16-02-07, 20:39
A long time ago I translated an article about Savo people who migrated to Pedersöre. There it mentions Karin Mattsdotter Kankkonen, daughter of Matts Påhlsson Kankkonen.

June

jmmccart99
16-02-07, 22:45
Hi,

This discussion is getting better and better.

To beat this horse completely to death, here is the theory (repeat, theory) on Påhl and Grels being brothers, who from Savo ended up on Canckoin, Evijärvi.

Note: in light of Jaska's, Järviseudun hstoria I, comments on farm titles, Aulis Oja's datings (used below) are not completely correct.

Aulis Oja, Merikarvian Kankkujen alkuperä, Genos 39 (1968), s. 25, posits Paavo Antinpoika Kankkonen (Juva parish), or Paavo Martinpoika Kankkonen (Rantasalmi tithe district, Putkilahti parish, Osikonmäki), as father of Paavo Paavonpoika Kankkonen (Påhl Påhlsson Kankkonen).

So, "Old Paul" (Vanha Paavo, Påhl den äldre);

and leaving out everything but the basics:


Gen 1
=======================================
1. Vanha Paavo (Påhl den äldre) (ca.1500 - ??), poss. Rantasalmi (NE of Mikkeli, between Varkaus and Savonlinna), Savo; about 340km NE of Helsinki (Helsingfors); or Juva (NE of Mikkeli, between it and Rantasalmi).

lapset (barn):

1.1. Paavo Paavonpoika Kankkonen (Påhl Påhlsson Kankkonen) (ca.1530 - ca.1599)

1.2. Reko Paavonpoika Kankkonen (Grels Påhlsson Kankkonen) (ca.1540 - ??)


Gen 2
=======================================
1.1. Paavo Paavonpoika Kankkonen (Påhl Påhlsson Kankkonen) (ca.1530 - ca.1599); Canckoin, Evijärvi; uudistilallinen (settler on new lands); ensimmäinen tilallinen (founding farmowner); talollinen-isäntä (bonde; freeholder); in the Lappajärvi area, one of several Savolaiset "new law" settlers (savolaisiin uudisasukkaisiin); he "flourished" in the era 1564-1599.

lapset (barn):

1.1.1. Klemetti Paavonpoika Kankkonen (Clemet Påhlsson Kankkonen) (1562 - aft.1636)

---------------------------------------------------------------------
1.2. Reko Paavonpoika Kankkonen (Grels Påhlsson Kankkonen) (ca.1540 - ??); Canckoin, Evijärvi; if a younger brother, prob. worked on Paavo's farm - perhaps a bolagsman (partner).

lapset (barn):

1.2.1. Reko Reko:npoika Kankkonen (Grels Grelsson Kankkonen) (ca.1570 - aft.1631)


Gen 3
=======================================
1.1.1. Klemetti Paavonpoika Kankkonen (Clemet Påhlsson Kankkonen) (1562 - aft.1636); Canckoin, Evijärvi; talollinen-isäntä (bonde; freeholder) (1598-1636).

lapset (barn):

1.1.1.1. Klemetti Klemetinpoika Kankkonen (Clemet Clemetsson Kankkonen) (1592 - aft.1677); Canckoin, Evijärvi; talollinen-isäntä (bonde; freeholder) (1636-1677), lautamies (nämdeman; lay jurist).

1.1.1.2. Other siblings: Knuutti (Knut) (ca.1600 - aft.1669); Canckoin, Evijärvi; Kankkosen tilallinen (1663-1669). Paavo (Påhl) (ca.1590 - aft.1671); flyttade från Evijärvi till Nylarleby (Uusikaarlepyy), borgar (porvari; burgess-citizen); flyttade från Nylarleby till Merikarvia, Alakylä, Satakunta, talollinen-isäntä (bonde; freeholder), Kankku, Merikarvia (1641-1671).

----------------------------------------------------------
1.2.1. Reko Reko:npoika Kankkonen (Grels Grelsson Kankkonen) (ca.1570 - aft.1631); prob. Canckoin, Evijärvi (if from that family); flyttade från Evijärvi till Rödsö, Karleby, i.b.p 1600-talet.

lapset (barn):

1.2.1.1. Olof Grelsson Kankkonen (ca.1610 - ), Rödsö, Karleby; bonde på Kankkonen (5/8 mtl) (1654-1673); hans son Nils Olofsson Kankkonen (1638-1725), Rödsö, Karleby; bonde på Kankkonen (i ML 1677,1681, Hp i ML 1690).

1.2.1.2. Other siblings (Brita, etc.).

This data from:

http://masterpage.midata.fi/GENE/Proband/ps07/ps07_094.htm

http://masterpage.midata.fi/GENE/Proband/ps07/ps07_092.htm

http://masterpage.midata.fi/GENE/Proband/ps07/ps07_058.htm


======================================
Here is a rough translation of the article by Aulis Oja, Merikarvian Kankkujen alkuperä, Genos 39 (1968), s. 25.

Clearing up Past Confusion

In the past, there was considerable confusion about the Kankkonen family. Genoksen vihossa 3/1967, sivulla 74, A. E. Korpela, presented the assumption that the Uusikaarlepyy (Nylarleby) burgher Paavo Klemetinpoika Kankkonen, who in every year from 1641 was assesed for the freeholding of Merikarvia in Alakylü, would have been by birth from Merikarvia. That kind of thinking caused the leading writer Martti Santavuora in his Merikarvian history to present information, in which one of the homesteads at Alakylü would have carried the name Kankku by 1500. That information was however baseless - the Kankku homestead in Merikarvia got its name from Paavo Klemetinpoika Kankkonen.

Paavo Klemetinpoika Kankkonen's ancestors had to be people from elsewhere than Merikarvia. The correct place to address the search was to Pietarsaari parish (current Evijärvi), Kerttua village, where one finds the Kankkonen (Kankkunen) homestead, whose first isännät (bönder; freeholders) were Paavo Paavonpoika Kankkonen (1564-1599), his son Klemetti Paavonpoika Kankkonen (1599-1636) and his son Klemetti Klemetinpoika Kankkonen (1636-1677).

The same homestead has been occupied since the 1600's by Kankkonen family members who in that northern Swedo-culture area still use the surname Kankkonen. They include the well-known ski jumper Veikko Kankkonen. Evijärvi's Kankkonen also is known outside the area, because of the present festival which takes place at Väinöntalo (Väinö's house; established by Väinö Tuomala) on the homestead - also the Järviseudun [Lakes District] museum. [1]

His father there could be either Paavo Antinpoika Kankkunen, a loinen [**], who lived in Juva parish in the 1560's; or Paavo Martinpoika Kankkunen, a talollinen (bonde; freeholder), from the Rantasalmi tithe district, Putkilahti parish, Osikomäki, who also was alive in the 1560's. [2]
References:

[1] Aulis Oja, [I]Pietarsaaren ylämaan eli Lappajärven kappelin talot vuosina 1543-1663 (Kytösavut VIII, 1958).

Paavo Kankkonen's "brother" Klemetti (mentioned in the Merikarvia census list of 1650) was clearly his son, not his brother as previously claimed.

[2] Aulis Oja, Uudistalollinen Paavo Paavonpoika Kankkonen (Järviseudun Joulu 1964).

[**] A loinen (literally "parasite") meant that he was not part of the "farm's operating family", which included the farmowner, his children, his lessees (if any) and his employees who worked the farm. A loinen might have been part of the farmer's kinship family; but probably had an independent means of economic existence - e.g., he may have been a shoemaker. Most likely, he paid the farmer some kind of rent (usually in kind from his trade) and may also have worked the farm. Definition from JAS (too many years ago).

---------------------------------------------
Note on Genos Articles: All are on line from vol. 1 (1930) thru vol. 71 (2000); presently, index only after vol. 71. Quick accesses to vol. 1 (1930) and vol. 71 (2000) are:

http://www.genealogia.fi/genos/1/

http://www.genealogia.fi/genos/71/

Just change the volume number for the years in between.

JMM

jmmccart99
16-02-07, 23:34
Hei,

I thought you would have something - we like the Old Fox when he comes out of his lair.

As you correctly point out, the old records often do not exactly prove the issue (whatever it is). So, the researcher is left with some evidence (some more strong than other) - and has to make inferences.

It strikes me that the Järviseudun historia I List provides us with some useful evidence about what went on in this family.

We have first:

1563-1597 Paavo Kankkonen
1598-1636 Klemetti Paavonpoika, son
1637-1662 Klemetti Klemetinpoika, son

So far, pretty much so good (except Klemetti ends in 1662 - blowing Oja's date of 1677 for the end of his tenure).

Next, we get:

1663-1669 Knuutti Klemetinpoika, brother?
1670-1676 Klemetti Knuutinpoika, son
1677-1688 Olavi Reonpoika, Klemetti Klemetinpoika as "sytingsman"

Knuutti is probably a brother of Klemetti Klemetinpoika (maybe there is an original record to "prove" that; otherwise a fair inference). Klemetti Knuutinpoika seems his son (but I have nothing on that).

Sidebar: I was wondering where my note for Knutti ("Lappajärven Kerttuankylän Kankkosen (no. 2) tilallinen 1663-69") came from. Is that Järviseudun historia I ?

So, what about Klemetti Klemetinpoika ? He retired as bonde ("sytingsman" in era 1677-1688). By 1688, he would have been 96. I like to think of him as a semi-retired lautamies (nämdeman; lay jurist), giving sage advice to the prople of his parish. As also, his descendant Juho Mikko in the present. :D

The most important guy here is 1677-1688 Olavi Reonpoika. Might he be none other than (from my prior post):

1.2.1.1. Olof Grelsson Kankkonen (ca.1610 - ), Rödsö, Karleby; bonde på Kankkonen (5/8 mtl) (1654-1673); hans son Nils Olofsson Kankkonen (1638-1725), Rödsö, Karleby; bonde på Kankkonen (i ML 1677,1681, Hp i ML 1690).

hans fader:

1.2.1. Reko Reko:npoika Kankkonen (Grels Grelsson Kankkonen) (ca.1570 - aft.1631); prob. Canckoin, Evijärvi (if from that family); flyttade från Evijärvi till Rödsö, Karleby, i.b.p 1600-talet.

Sidebar: Wasn't sure of the genitive for Reko, so I "fudged".

Reko's son Olavi stays at Rödsö, Karleby (bonde, era 1654-1673); leaves to go back to Evijärvi to take over in 1677. His son Nils takes over as bonde on the Rödsö, Karleby farm (era 1677-1690).

I bet you have a local history on that one too - or am I assuming too much ?

The bottom line is that Olavi Reonpoika establishes a direct connection (firm evidence) between the Evijärvi and Rödsö families.

All in all, this makes a pretty good package - up to 1688.

Maybe, I will look at the later "Kaappos" (sounds like the Godfather movies - It. capo - Mafia), later tonite.

JMM

June Pelo
17-02-07, 00:59
I have a lot of old data given to me by genealogist Birger Lindqvist of Gamlakarleby. In his Kankkonen data I found this mention from him in 1974:

Kankkonen in Lappajärvi, according to V.Peltokangas

Clemet Kanck in Kertto village, b. 1562.
child: Clemet, b. 1592 - see below:

Clemet Clemetsson Canckoinen, b. 1592. Farmer in Kertto village. Died ca 1658. Married Malin Johansdotter, d. D.Oculi 1669.

Children:
1. Clemet, d. 12.24.1677. Married #1 NN Mattsdotter Söffring, d. 1670. Married #2 Walborg Thomasdotter.
2. Jacob, d. Dca Trinit. 1675. Married Margeta Pehrsdotter, d. 6.10.1697.
3. Marcus, b. ca 1640, d. Dca 3 Epiph. 1693. Married Omu Sanctos 1664 in Lappajärvi to Margeta Pehrsdotter in Purmojerfwi, d. 6.18.1697.
4. Thomas, married Margitta Nilsdotter, d. 1672.
5. Johan
6. Margeta, b. ca 1616, d. 3.11.1703. Married Lars Pehrsson Wijsala in Purmojerfwi, d. 4.5.1693.
7. Walborg, married Gabriel Mattsson Culdalax in Efjerfwi.
8. Anna, married Hindrich Cnutsson in Cortt Jarwi.
9. Brita, b. ca 1634, d. 3.30.1708. Married Påhl Michelsson Söder Cultalax in Efjerfwi, b. 1.1639, d. 2.11.1699.

Note: In the Christmas edition "Järviseudun Joulu 1964" found several articles of Kankkonen family in Evijärvi. It was written that ski jumper Veikko Kankkonen descended from Rödsö's family ancestor Grels Kankkonen who came from Evijärvi-Kankkonen. BL

There is a Kankkonen chart of 20 tables, starting with Grels Kankoinen, farmer of 1/2 mtl in Rödsö 1620-27 and then includes descendants of his son Olof Grelsson Kenckojnen, farmer of 5/8 mtl in Rödsö, 1654-1671 and 1673. He had 3 sons: Grels, Nils and possibly Lars.

June

jmmccart99
17-02-07, 04:03
Hi June,

The Birger Lindqvist - V.Peltokangas Material is interesting. It seems they have mixed up the wives of Clement I, II and III (at least according to what everyone else has today).

The only "family page" I have for Clement Clementsson (Clement II) is from that big Jorma "Suka". Here is how it compares to the Birger Lindqvist - V.Peltokangas Material (which I rearranged so they more or less line up):

--------------------------------------------
http://koti.japo.fi/~jkhpuro/jorma.htm
[2.5MB to download]
Taulu 1044
XII Klemetti Klemetinpoika Kankkonen, (Taulusta 60), s. 1592 Evijärvi, Kankkonen, k. 24.12.1677 Evijärvi.
Vanhemmat (Taulusta 60)
Puoliso: Valpuri Tuomaantytär. (Taulu 1040), s. 1592, k. 24.12.1677 Evijärvi, Kankkonen.
Lapset:
1. Klemetti, sotilas, s. 1620 noin
2. Jaakko, s. 1620 noin, k. 1675 Evijärvi, Kankkonen (d 24 trin)
3. Lauri, sotilas, s. 1620 Evijärvi, Kankoin, k. 00.03.1711
4. Juho, bonde, s. 1620 noin, k. 1680 Esse, Ytteresse, Kankkonen
5. Matti, s. 1630 noin Evijärvi, Kankoin
6. Valpuri, s. 1632 Evijärvi
7. Brita, s. 1634. Tauluun 1040
8. Markus, itsellinen, s. 1640, k. 1693 Evijärvi, Kerttu (d. 8 Epiphan)
9. Tuomas, s. 1640 noin, Evijärvi, k. 24.12.1675 Evijärvi
10. Marketta, s. n. 1645 Evijärvi, Kankkonen

---------------------------------------------------
Birger Lindqvist - V.Peltokangas Material
Clemet Clemetsson Canckoinen, b. 1592. Farmer in Kertto village. Died ca 1658. Married Malin Johansdotter, d. D.Oculi 1669.
Children:
1. Clemet, d. 12.24.1677. Married #1 NN Mattsdotter Söffring, d. 1670. Married #2 Walborg Thomasdotter.
2. Jacob, d. Dca Trinit. 1675. Married Margeta Pehrsdotter, d. 6.10.1697.
[3] [Lars-Lauri]
[4] 5. Johan
[5.] [Matts-Matti]
[6] 7. Walborg, married Gabriel Mattsson Culdalax in Efjerfwi.
[7] 9. Brita, b. ca 1634, d. 3.30.1708. Married Påhl Michelsson Söder Cultalax in Efjerfwi, b. 1.1639, d. 2.11.1699.
[8] 3. Marcus, b. ca 1640, d. Dca 3 Epiph. 1693. Married Omu Sanctos 1664 in Lappajärvi to Margeta Pehrsdotter in Purmojerfwi, d. 6.18.1697.
[9] 4. Thomas, married Margitta Nilsdotter, d. 1672.
[10] 6. Margeta, b. ca 1616, d. 3.11.1703. Married Lars Pehrsson Wijsala in Purmojerfwi, d. 4.5.1693.
8. Anna, married Hindrich Cnutsson in Cortt Jarwi. [not in Jorma]

----------------------------------------------
Not much different, until you get to details. Jorma has Lars-Lauri & Matts-Matti as "extras"; while Anna is not in Jorma. Jorma has a Marketta (b. ca. 1645); but certainly not the Marketta (b. ca. 1616) who married Lars Pehrsson Wijsala in Purmojerfwi.

Two boys married to two Margeta Pehrsdotters (dying within 8 days of "each other") looks suspicious.

Both sources agree on Jacob-Jaakko (and Jorma has Lars-Lauri). Those boys may be the source of the later bönder that Jaska gave us:

1689-1694 Kaappo Laurinpoika, nephew
1695-1698 Kaappo Jaakonpoika
1699-1705 Kaappo Kaaponpoika, son
1706-1719 Kaappo Jaakonpoika, again
1723-1724 Jaakko Kaaponpoika, son

What say you, Jaska, 'bout all this ?

Looks like right now, no one can get too dogmatic about this family. At least everyone agrees on our Riitta (Brita).

===========================
I would be very interested in reading the Birger Lindqvist - V.Peltokangas Material; the Christmas edition "Järviseudun Joulu 1964" with its several articles of the Kankkonen family in Evijärvi; and finally, the Rödso Kankkonen chart of 20 tables, etc.

If I left you my snail mail address in a private message, would you be willing to xerox those materials and send them to me. I assume they are paper hardcopies.

T.s.m.

JMM

"Love" the old spellings - Efjerfwi !

Jaska Sarell
17-02-07, 11:16
When I listed the Kankkonen farmers as Järviseudun historia I has them, I completely forgot the other part of the farm. Here it comes:
Kankkonen 2:
1620-1628 Paavo Klemetinpoika, son of Klemetti Paavonpoika
1629-1673 undivided
1674-1677 Jaakko Klemetinpoika, father of Kaappo Jaakonpoika
1678-1681 Olavi Reonpoika, son-in-law
1682-1685 Lauri Klemetinpoika, brother of Jaakko Klemetinpoika
1686-1688 Hannu Laurinpoika, son
1689-1697 Simo Laurinpoika, brother
1698-1707 Matti Laurinpoika, brother
1708-1710 Simo Laurinpoika, again
1711-1713 Matti Laurinpoika, again

I have tried to read the mantal records of 1600's in order to get some picture about all of this. The records up to 1671 mention only farmer's name and number of people. 1672-73 are not available and I miss 1674, but in 1675 and afterwards all names of taxable people are listed, sometimes with patronymic, sometimes without.
Last spring I took snapshots from mantal record microfilms (1635 to 1713) with better and worse success, and have now tried to read the names. So far I have found no sign of Cnut/Knuutti nor Clemet Cnutsson, though I almost interpreted 1676 Clemet Canckonen as Clemet Cnutsson. Maybe someone who collected all the names for the history book have done just that(?).
The deciphering under construct at: http://www.sci.fi/~jaskas/gen/div/Kerttua.html
(included the neighboring Karvonen farm as well to get the whole village).
The second column states the mantal size, the right hand columns have the number of people in different categories of which I have no idea (the meaning changed over the years). A well readable sample is linked from an eye symbol in 1686. Interpretation errors are very likely due to damaged original, poor quality microfilm or my lousy photo quality.

Thanks for the several references of which I had no knowledge!

Olof Grelsson's wife Lisa Clemetsdotter seems to be mentioned in 1680, not himself. She's not listed in any of so far cited genealogies.
The 16th and early 17th century is another matter where these records do not give any light.

:) Jaska

June Pelo
17-02-07, 19:59
I don't have any of Birger Lindqvist's documents - I retyped what I had copied from his notes to me. I don't know if he had a copy of the Christmas edition "Järviseudun Joulu 1964" with its several articles of the Kankkonen family in Evijärvi. Wonder if there would be a copy of that edition at some library in Finland?

After Birger's death his genealogy collection was donated to Karlebynejdens Bygde-och Släktforskare. Don't know if they would have a copy of that edition? I don't know where the collection is stored or if anyone can have access to it. I'll see if I can find out.

It's possible that he had more Kankkonen data in his files. He sent me just the data that connected to my family line. And I have marked the copy up with notes, etc.

Hasse Krokfors also has some Kankkonen data. I don't know if he is home or traveling for Åbo Akademi. Jaska, has Hasse sent you any Kankkonen data? There is data about the Kankkonen-Hilli family in the Lars Friis i Karleby och hans Ättlingar book - but that line begins ca 1792 and there's no earlier history about Kankkonen.

June

jmmccart99
17-02-07, 20:51
Hei Jaska,

I thought you would come through - you always do ! ;)

For my part, I think "deep breath time" may be a good thing. I am going to start with the 1998 data from Hasse K and you (both pretty basic) and work up to the present with what is known (and what is uncertain).

Your mantal record page is beautiful - would that we had them for every farm !

This is an interesting family, what with the Paavo who travels off, with an intermediate stop as a burgess-merchant, and then goes down the coast to far-off northwestern Satakunta. Plus, there were more boys who set off on their own and spread the Kankkonen farm name, in one form or another. Not bad for a bunch of Savolaiset ! ;)

There are some dates in June's Birger Lindqvist - V.Peltokangas Material (and the big Jorma thing) that are interesting (parents and 1st 4 kids):

-------------------------------------------
Taulu 1044
XII Klemetti Klemetinpoika Kankkonen, (Taulusta 60), s. 1592 Evijärvi, Kankkonen, k. 24.12.1677 Evijärvi.
Vanhemmat (Taulusta 60)
Puoliso: Valpuri Tuomaantytär. (Taulu 1040), s. 1592, k. 24.12.1677 Evijärvi, Kankkonen.
Lapset:
1. Klemetti, sotilas, s. 1620 noin
2. Jaakko, s. 1620 noin, k. 1675 Evijärvi, Kankkonen (d 24 trin)
3. Lauri, sotilas, s. 1620 Evijärvi, Kankoin, k. 00.03.1711
4. Juho, bonde, s. 1620 noin, k. 1680 Esse, Ytteresse, Kankkonen

Birger Lindqvist - V.Peltokangas Material
Clemet Clemetsson Canckoinen, b. 1592. Farmer in Kertto village. Died ca 1658. Married Malin Johansdotter, d. D.Oculi 1669.
Children:
1. Clemet, d. 12.24.1677. Married #1 NN Mattsdotter Söffring, d. 1670. Married #2 Walborg Thomasdotter.
2. Jacob, d. Dca Trinit. 1675. Married Margeta Pehrsdotter, d. 6.10.1697.
[3] [Lars-Lauri]
[4] 5. Johan

Yes, there is a mix-up with the various Clements (sounds like the arguments in church history about Clement, the epistle writer and "3rd bishop of Rome"). Too many Clements in one place !!!

-----------------------------------------------
#4 kid Juho-Johan we can temporarily remove from the picture, since he travels off and founds the Esse branch of Kankkonen (with a little different local name - recollection of a couple of June's translated articles).

Sons Klemetti-Clemet and Lauri-Lars are each sotilas (soldier). Son Jaakko-Jacob seems the pacifist and stays at home. Wise man. :D

The date k. 24.12.1677 (for father, mother and son Klemetti-Clemet - combining what the two sources say) seems critical. Maybe, lautamies Klemetti did not have a very long retirement.:mad:

Since it is an exact date, there must be an original record somewhere (recall my "elusive Brita" from the Wargh hemman). HisKi seems not to help since the outlying Pedersöre villages start ca.1722-1724, with a few exceptions where they got into the (partial ?) Jakobstad records from 1694.

So, again, I pass the ball to you. For my part, I guess record consolidation and several bottles of stout would be a good plan for tonite.
Wish you were here (or I there) - to share. :rolleyes:

JMM

jmmccart99
17-02-07, 21:03
Hi June,

Thanks for the update on the "provenience" (sp?) of the various Kankkonen records. It seems that Jaska and Hasse K might be more likely to have access to them. For my part, if I had decent hardcopy, I would be more than willing to scan, OCR, and proof-read against the originals.

That way, all the "cousins" could have access to electronic format docs.

T.s.m.

JMM

jmmccart99
17-02-07, 21:29
Hej,

K.V Åkerblom, Pörtom Historia (Helsingfors, 1954), s.464, provides us with some sage advice to apply here: "Vi börja därför med den säkert kanda."

Hopefully, that is possible here.

PS: In the particular case he was the writing about, the result was to omit all speculative ancestors and bönder before the first verified record (1595). :(

JMM

Jaska Sarell
18-02-07, 00:07
HisKi death records do help here!
1669 buried on D. Oculi enckia Maalin of Clemet Kauckoin [sic!]
1670 buried on D. 3. Adw. hustru of Clemet Kauckoin [sic!]

Lappajärvi HisKi recorder has Kanckoin almost always as Kauckoin :confused:
Mantal records state Clemet Clemetsson still in 1660, but from 1665 only Clemet without patronymic.
Those burials coincide with Lindqvist & Peltokangas structure. The names must have been found from other documents. Anyway that data seems to be the most reliable here. And no sign of phantom Canute :cool:

Using Nordiska kalendrar år 1200–2100 found at http://www.genealogi.se/bosved.htm (NORDKAL.EXE) the above Latin Sundays correspond to dates 14 Mar 1669 and 11 Dec 1670.

:) Jaska

jmmccart99
18-02-07, 03:02
Well,

What follows may or may not be 100% correct, but is "surely known".

Jaska's table (on website) has all the data, but the summary below will allow cutting and pasting without spending the time required to edit out the numbers.

==========================================
Hasse K 23-Nov-1998

3624 Kankkonen, Pål Pålsson c:a 1530
3625 Kankkonen, Kerttu
1812 Kankkonen, Klemet Pålsson c:a 1562
1813 Kankkonen, NN g.
906 Kankkonen, Klemet Klemetsson __-__-1592 i Evijärvi, Ker
907 Tomasdr, Valborg g. Kankkonen
452 Söderkultalax, Pål Mickelsson 14-02-1639 11-02-1699
453 Kankkonen, Brita Klemetsdr Söderkultalax __-__-1634 i Evijärvi 30-03-1708

------------------------------------------------------
Jaska 1 29-Nov-1998 a01-Dec-1998

3624 Paavo Kankkonen
1812 Klemetti Paavonpoika Kankkonen
906 Klemetti Klemetinpoika Kankkonen __-__-1592
907 Valpuri Tuomaantytär
452 Paavo Mikonpoika Söderkultalahti 14-02-1639 11-02-1699
453 Brita Klemetintytär Kankkonen __-__-1634 30-03-1708

==================================
Analysis:

1. The wife of Klemetti Paavonpoika Kankkonen (Pål Pålsson Kankkonen), he b./s./f. ca. 1562 (by hk), was named after 1 Dec 1998 by "someone".

2. The wife of Klemetti Klemetinpoika Kankkonen (Klemet Klemetsson Kankkonen), he b./s./f. 1592, was Valpuri Tuomaantytär (Valborg Tomasdotter). Note: the exact year "1592" implies a reference to some sort of "death record" (not necessarily paper; it could be a tombstone !). Not necessarily so, for his father's "ca. 1562" by Hasse K. He probably was working back from 1592 using a 30-year generation span.

3. The only complete datings are for the Söderkultalahti-Kankkonen couple (so, probably original death records there).

==================================
from JAS in 2007 Thread

Järviseudun historia I (talolliset-bönder, Kankkonen, Evijärvi):

Kankkonen 1

1563-1597 Paavo Kankkonen
1598-1636 Klemetti Paavonpoika, son
1637-1662 Klemetti Klemetinpoika, son
1663-1669 Knuutti Klemetinpoika, brother?
1670-1676 Klemetti Knuutinpoika, son
1677-1688 Olavi Reonpoika, Klemetti Klemetinpoika as "sytingsman"
1689-1694 Kaappo Laurinpoika, nephew
1695-1698 Kaappo Jaakonpoika
1699-1705 Kaappo Kaaponpoika, son
1706-1719 Kaappo Jaakonpoika, again
1723-1724 Jaakko Kaaponpoika, son

Järviseudun historia I (talolliset-bönder, Kankkonen, Evijärvi):

Kankkonen 2:

1620-1628 Paavo Klemetinpoika, son of Klemetti Paavonpoika
1629-1673 undivided
1674-1677 Jaakko Klemetinpoika, father of Kaappo Jaakonpoika
1678-1681 Olavi Reonpoika, son-in-law
1682-1685 Lauri Klemetinpoika, brother of Jaakko Klemetinpoika
1686-1688 Hannu Laurinpoika, son
1689-1697 Simo Laurinpoika, brother
1698-1707 Matti Laurinpoika, brother
1708-1710 Simo Laurinpoika, again
1711-1713 Matti Laurinpoika, again

===========================================
from JAS webpage ["table numbers" omitted here]

Lappajärvi / Evijärvi - Kerttuankylä (Kertoby)
Kankkonen & Karvonen
Mantallängder -1656 Hapa-Purmåjärff 1657- Kierttoby
17 II 2007 incomplete 1641--1695

1635
mf ES2467 [unclear]

1636
mf ES2467 [unclear]

1637--1640 Not available

1641 mf ES2468
Eskill Karfwojn
Clemeth Clemetsson

1642 mf LT1104
1 Eskell Karfwoin
1¼ Clemet Clemetsson

1643 mf LT1105
1644 mf LT1106

1645 mf LT1108

1646
mf LT1109
1 Eskill Karf
1¼ Clemet Kanck

1648 mf LT1143

1649 mf OS95a

1650 mf LT1709
1/2 Eskill Karffwånen
1¼ Clemet Kanckånen

1651
mf OS95

1652 mf OS96
Eskil Karfwåin
Clemet Kanckån

1653 mf OS96
3/4 Eskil Karfwåin
1¼ Clemet Kanckån

1654 mf ES2469

1655 mf CD991

1656 mf CD992
1¼ Clemeth Kankoin
3/4 Eskill Karfwoinen

1657 mf CD992
Clemeth Clemetsson
Eskill Karfwoinen

1658 mf CD992
Clemet Clemetsson
Eskill Karfwoinen
Lars Krögar

1659 mf CD992
Clemet Clemetsson
Eskill Karfwoinen
Lars Krögar

1660 mf CD993
Clemet Clemetsson
Eskill Karfuoinen
Lars Krögar

1661--1664 Not available

1665 mf CD993
1¼ Clemet Canckoinen
1 Eskil Karfuoinen
huusman Lars Clemetsson

1667 mf CD994
1¼ Clemet Canckoinen
1 Eskill Karfuoinen
Olof Karfwoinen

1671 mf CD994
1¼ Clemet Canckojnen
1 Eskell Karfuojnen

1674 mf CD995 [to do] (filmen fjärrlånat)

1675 mf LT1515

5/4 - Clemett Kankuinen
h: Walborgh Tomasdotter
s: [?] Clemetsson

5/8 Jacob Clemetsson
h: Marg. Persdr
[brodhern]

1 Erich Karfwoinen
h: Helga Michelsdotter
b: Jacob
h: Marg: Matzdotter
J:h: Larss Spangar

1676 mf LT1517

5/8 Clemet Canckonen
h: Walbor Thomasdr
s. Michel Clemetsson

5/8 Markus Clemetsson
h: Margeta Persdr

1 Erich Karfwoinen
h: Helga Michelsdr
b: Jacob
h: Margeta Matzdr
b: Mattz

1677 mf LT1518

5/8 Clemet Kankoinen
h: Walborg Tomasdr

5/8 Markus Kankoinen
h: Margeta Peersdr

1 Erich Karfwoinen
h: Helga Michelsdr
b: Jacob
h: Margeta Matzdr

1678 mf LT1519

[5/8] [Vacant ?]

5/8 Markus Kankoinen
h: Margeta Peersdr

1 Erich Karfwoinen
h: Helga Michelsdr
[?] Jacob Eskilsson
hustru N

1679 Not available

1680 mf LT1565

5/8 Olof Grelssons hustru
Lisa Clemetzdotter

5/8 Markus Kankoinen
h: Margeta Persdr

1 Erich Karfwoinen
h: Helga Michelsdr
b: Jacob
h: Marg:

1681 mf LT1522

5/8 Lars Kankoinen
h: Margeta Hansdr

5/8 Markus Kankoinen
h: Margeta Peersdr

1 Erich Karwoinen
h: Helga Michelsdr
[s?] E Margeta

1682 Not available

1683 mf LT1384

5/8 Lars Clemetsson
s: Hans Larsson

5/8 Markus Kankonen
h: Margeta Pehrsdr

1 Erich Karfwåjnen
h: Helga Michellsdr
Inhys. Matz Karfwojnen
Inhys. Mattz Simonsson
och hustron N

1684, 1685 Not available

1686 mf LT1523

5/8 Lars Clemetssons son
Hans Larsson
h:n Sophia
b:r Enkian Marja

5/8 Markus Kanckonen
h:n Margeta Pehrsdr
b:r son Gabriel Jacobsson

1 Erich Karfwonen
h: Helga Michelsdr
s:n Matz Erichsson
h:n Karin Jacobsdr
Inhys: Matz Karfwonen

1687 Not available

1688 mf LT1210

5/8 Hans Larsson
hust: Såffia
br. Simon
systr Anna

5/8 Marckus Kanckån
hust: Margeta
Br:Sn Gabriel
hust: Anna

1 Erich Karfwånen
son Mattz
hust: Karin
dr: Maria
Inh: Matz Karfwåinen

1689 mf LT1525

5/8 Simon Larsson
hust: Karin
swåg: Thomas
hust: Malin
Inh: Matz Andersson
hust: Brijta
Inh: Michel Karfwonen
hust: Anna

5/8 Gabriel Larsson
hust: Anna
swåg: Jacob
hust: Maria
Inh: Marckus Kankånen
hust: Margeta
Inh: Hans Larsson
hust: Såffia

1 Erich Karfwånen
son Matz
hust: Karin
dott: Maria
löösdrifvaren Matz Karfwånen

1690 mf LT1529

5/8 Simon Kanckånen
hust: Karin
swåger Thomas
Inh: Matz Anderss:
hust: Brijta
Inh: Michel Karfwånen
hust: Anna

5/8 Gabriel Larsson
hust: Anna
swåg: Jacob
hust: Maria
Inh: Hans Larsson

1 Erich Karfwånen
son Matz
hust: Karin
dott: Maria
Löösdrif: Matz Karfwåinen

1691 Not available


1692 mf LT740

5/8 Simon Kankonen
hust: Carin
br. Mattz

5/8 Gabriel Larsson
hust: Anna
son Jacob
hust: Maria

1 Erich Karfwonen
som Mattz
hust: Maria
dott: Maria
inhys. Mattz Karfwonen
huusman Markus [?]

1693, 1694 Not available

1695 mf LT1276

5/8 Simon Kakonen [sic!]
hust: Carin
brod. Matz
hust: Margeta
syst: Brita

5/8 Gabriel Jacobsson
hust: Anna
swåg: Jacob
hust: Maria
syst: Brita
dreng Johan

1 Matz Ersson h: Carin
brod: Påhl
hust: Walborg
brod: Thomas
inh: Mattz Karfwonen
inh: Sigfred Sliip
hust: N

=========================================
Notes to the above when I study this further, and get some more data - and when I learn to download all of my relevant HisKi parishes.

JMM

jmmccart99
18-02-07, 03:21
Hei,

Yah, you caught me on that one - I didn't download the Lappa HisKi records to my computer. One of the few I missed, I guess. So, in penance for my sin (now in process of rectification), I will - answer my own question:

---------------------------------
Hiski Lappajärvi Buried

24.12.1677 - Sal. Clemet Kauckonen
24.12.1677 - sin h:ru Walborg Thomàd:r
relative: Sal. Clemet Kauckonen

Unfortunately, no ages. Now, we know why son Clemet is also given that death date. That aside, something bad happened to Clemet & Walborg.

It looks like there may be quite a few more "buried" in HisKi.

==================================
So, on to more sin - after fortification with a roast beef sandwich and a pint of milk,

The store had Sine today. So, next, Sine Porter (the 7.5% stuff), with Guiness Draught Stout for a "wash";

and no more postings from me until I recover (24 hours minimum).

:D
JMM

Jaska Sarell
18-02-07, 11:19
but increased confusion :confused:

Widow Malin (Johansdotter?), died in 1669, could of course have been widow of Clemet Påhlsson Kankkonen. That's how it's also been connected (actually I had picked that from somewhere). Rather high age in that case, no doubt.
The question should have been: "two or three Clemets?".

Paper and ink was too valuable in early 17th century to be used in such trivialities as writing names of people in those documents. Everybody knew who they were, and for the crown only the number of taxpayers was relevant information :rolleyes:

:) Jaska

Kaarina
18-02-07, 22:29
hej
Till er alla, ett stort Tack, för informationen om Kankkonen.
Bifogar här Påffuell Clemetssons ättlingar till Merikarvia.
Från Pirjo.

Lauri Haavisto
21-02-07, 09:47
I tried to scan through some of the material presented about Kankkunen in Evijärvi. Some uncertainty seems to be there about the wifes, widows and mothers.

I just occurred me that if the wife the dies there is no sure proof that she would in fact be the mother to all the children. If a wife dies and the children are small the widower ofter remarried another woman, same age or slightly younger than the first one. And gets new children. So the children have two mothers. Sometimes it happened that the mother of all children dies and even if the children dont need a new mother to take care of themselves the man remarries in old age with, say, an other widower of same age, probably just to have some company or some other reasons that the society saw proper. So the widow in fact is not the mother to any of the children.

So if we have no other reliable evidence about marriages, deaths etc. we can never be 100 % sure.

Lauri Haavisto (my first input ever to this forum)

Jaska Sarell
21-02-07, 11:22
So if we have no other reliable evidence about marriages, deaths etc. we can never be 100 % sure.

That's quite true. One problem with genealogies presented in the internet is that they usually lack comments by original researcher who may have notes about the uncertainties. The error is multiplied, if the parents of the presented wife are known and new branches to ancestry are created. At least then there should be more evidences for the connection.

Lauri, welcome to Finlander Forum!

:) Jaska

June Pelo
08-03-07, 20:53
RE the queries about Kankkonen, I contacted a genealogist in Finland to get his thoughts and he replied:

Paffvue l(Paul) Andersson Cancu, Kankkonen, b after 1500 in Savolax in the village of Juva.

Paffuel Martensson was probably a cousin of his. The name of CANCU was used as early as the beginning of the 16th century.

Son: Paffvuel Paffvuelsson Canckku, b. abt 1530 at Juva (the parish of Rantasalmi), Savolax, d. Evijarvi 1597. Master 1564-99. Two possible forefathers, either Paffvuel Andersson or Paffuel Martensson. Genealogists have settled for the first-mentioned. He came to Evijarvi in 1564 and got at once into dispute with Marten Karvonen who had come to Evijärvi from Savolax before Paffuel . Both were fined. Paffuel seems to have had a "booze problem".

Sons:

1.Grels Paffuelsson Kankkonen, b. abt 1550. Grels could be the father of Grels Grelsson Kankkonen in Karleby, b. 1570. (At least that is my theory)

2. Clemet Paffuelsson Kankkonen, b. 1562

June