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Dawid Bawden
06-02-07, 22:16
I have been searching Purmo Parish records to find a connection to my ancestors and am stuck. The Genealogical Society of Finland Site (HisKi) web site shows births 1774-1851 and marriages 1775-1894.

Where do you look for births after 1851? Is there a site or a contact? Thank you for any help you can give me as I'm new to this.:eek:

Jaska Sarell
07-02-07, 00:23
Unfortunately Purmo birth records are not even available in the National Archives of Finland but to 1875. Many other parishes have them close to the end of 19th century.

Before writing to the parish you could first try us, other members of Finlander Forum. Somebody may know or have a copy of a research made that includes your ancestor.

BTW. My paternal great grandfather was born in Purmo.

:) Jaska

granskare
07-02-07, 01:02
try this place and maybe you will yave some enjoyment

http://digi.narc.fi/digi/dosearch.ka?PHPSESSID=a516797025271c29e5d70eb19302 836c&new=1&haku=purmo

I think it's the archives page refered to by Jaska

Jaska Sarell
07-02-07, 11:19
Chuck, I didn't mean that, but the church records.
Thanks for reminding of that source anyway. The 1880 census (henkikirja, mantalslängd) has birth year stated, which could be very useful. For finding someone in the 1875 census, you already need to know more.

:) Jaska

granskare
07-02-07, 19:28
At least the person making the query now knows of this place but it's a bear to navigate. Only in Finnish - Swedish would have been helpful.
The other place doesn't show Purmo being scanned, yet.
http://www.digiarkisto.org/sshy/index_eng.htm
They are doing a good job and seem to be going into high gear so pple should watch this place also.

Too bad the official archives place could not have put in the Swedish text on the pages. Finnish neo-cons in charge there? :)

Chuck

sune
07-02-07, 19:48
Chuck

If you click the link to "Etusivu" (starting page) in the upper left corner of the page you just have linked up, you move to the starting page of the site. There you will find the links "suomeksi", "på svenska" and "in English". The site is the National Archive's, so they are obliged to give service also in Swedish. But otherwise your suspicion is well founded. Finnish neo-cons can be found everywhere these days.

Sune

granskare
07-02-07, 20:50
I did see that info but beyond a short intro, it's 100% Finnish language.

I can see the boss there receiving an "atta boy Brownie" from the shrub :)

Dawid Bawden
09-02-07, 02:30
Thank you for the quick help! I've downloaded 20 pages of the Purmo 1880 records and am currently slugging through those. The HisKi source has confirmed a few other records as well as I've learned to navigate around in it. Just in case a relative reads this my ancestors are tied to Petter Pettersson of Backsbacka farm and Greta Lisa Pehsdr of Naars.

Now for another problem...

The other side of my family also comes from Purmo. My grandmother's name was Hannah Nylund. All her brothers and sisters also have the Nylund name yet her father's name was Matts Johnson and her mother's name was Margaret Erickson (Ericsdr). The last name should be Mattson or Matsdr...

I can't figure out where the "Nylund" last name come from? Ideas?

granskare
09-02-07, 03:09
my recommendation would be for you to put all names of people you want to know about, dates of birth and birthplace in Finland
and importantly, where did they go in North America.

I have access to Swenson Swedish Immigration Records here in town, url is;
http://www.augustana.edu/swenson/genealogy.html

There used to be a Bawden printing company in Davenport or northern Scott Co in Iowa.

Chuck

Jaska Sarell
09-02-07, 21:11
Dawid,
You certainly have already found the first couple at Bäcksbacka farm. What does that tell? Clarifications in brackets.
Petter Pettersson [born 18]36, h [hustru=wife] Greta [<Margareta] [born 18]44, B 1-1 [barn=children, 1 male, 1 female], Br [bror=brother] Johan 27, h Anna 24. Johan 59, Petter 60 [possible relationship not shown]
Columns on the right show the total number of persons in different categories, tax paying (4 male, 2 female), under- or over-aged (1 m, 1 f), total (5 m, 3 f) and the final sum of 8.

It seems that Petter's parents were not at Bäcksbacka when he was born, nor were Margaret's parents at Naars when she was born :confused:
Not at all that simple. I have noticed, that people did move around from one place to another in Purmo quite a lot, many also from elsewhere. It's been really a nuisance when microfilms church records are not available in the National Archives.
Finlander Gedcom Talko database has an entry for Anders Pettersson Bäcksbacka, b. 23 Sep 1880. He probably belongs to that family. Unfortunately he's mentioned there only as a spouse of a researched family (wife Maria Andersdotter Sjöblom, b. 15 Sep 1885).

You are on the right track that patronymic names were really the most important. Sometimes the farm name was applied, as most genealogists do to identify a person. But they could have changed. As to Nylund, that sounds like a taken surname. But not all Nylunds were related, closely anyway. Surnames in modern sense became popular in late 1800's and became compulsory in 1920's.

BTW. I found my FFF Alexander in that 1880 census with his brother listed as Matts Paulsson Filppus. Later Matts became Backman, and Alexander became Sarell, youngest brother Johan became Sundquist. Their father has name Långgräfsbacka in that census :confused:

:) Jaska

Kaj Granlund
11-02-07, 10:15
David
Have you got any dates for birth of any of the people you are loking for. I have about 10.000 persons in my database for Purmo so maybe...

granskare
11-02-07, 20:49
will we be able to edit soon?

chuc

Kaj Granlund
11-02-07, 21:14
He he,
Chuck wants to edit (=delete) me ;)

granskare
11-02-07, 22:58
:)
I want to be able to edit my stuff so ppl can't see my bad beyboard and the way it is spelling these days.
Hasse has taken away all of our privileges but I guess it is the way with the nobility even today :D

Kaj Granlund
12-02-07, 11:50
Could do with that edit myself. There must be something wrong with these new keyboards LOL

Dawid Bawden
14-02-07, 05:45
The one I'm struggling with is my mom's mother. I can't find anything on her to connect her to Purmo but I know her family is from there. I've seen the house and spoken to relatives when I visted many years ago. A cousin, Eric Nylund still lived in the place. I found an address of 68870 Overpurm. Does that mean anything?

My grandmother was Hannah Nylund born Mar 11, 1887 in Purmo. Matts Johnson and Greta Erickson are noted on her Butte, Montana marriage certificate. Her siblings are: Johan Viktor Nylund Nov 22, 1872 - Feb 10, 1933 (cemetary in Purmo), Herman Nylund Jan 24, 1878 - Dec 2, 1965, Alfred Nylund (gone to America), Maria Nylund Oct 5, 1889 (gone to America), and Amanda Nylund (no information).

I met Johan Viktor Nylunds daughter Lea Sjoblom and her children: Stig Sjoblom, May Britt Stannaba, and Anna Lis Bjork. They might live in Jacobstad. I've been trying to find a way to contact them as Lea is probable passed on but they are around 60 years old now. If I could contact them, I'd be able to solve a lot of these problems. Everyone over here in America that had connections has passed on. Thanks again for any help. I just ordered some communion book films from LDS to see if they can help me find this Nylund connection.

An 1890 census for Purmo would sure help. Does one exist?

Dawid Bawden
14-02-07, 05:48
Thanks. I've been working on this site and have had some luck here. I referred to this site as "HisKi" in my original message.

Dawid Bawden
14-02-07, 06:05
Anders is one of the son's of Petter. (I've got to figure out how you found that out.) I've got this side, Peterson, fairly well resourced thanks to a second cousin, Elizabeth Back, one of Maria Sjoblom's relatives and another relative, Hugo Sjoskeg, that kept phenomenal records. Hugo was the local historian I had a chance to meet when I visited Purmo with my mom many years ago.

Thanks.

christina
14-02-07, 22:57
Hi Dawid.
I have sent you a private message with some adresses.

Greetings from
Christina Nordback

David Bawden
23-02-07, 16:42
Please direct future correspondence to this log in name. Thank You. David

June Pelo
23-02-07, 20:35
David,

You mentioned an Alfred Nylund - gone to America. I have some data on an Alfred Nylund that was given to me. He was born 22 Sep 1875 and went to America 1895. He married about 1900 to Ida Sofia Andersdotter Majander, b. 7 Oct 1867, Karleby. She had emigrated to Ludington, MI and was married first to Alfred Nylund, and remarried to Johan Jonsson. She lived in Oregon.

Alfred had children: Adina, Edith, Edna, Walter, Irving. Family lived in Rhinelander, WI 1910 and 1920.

Don't know if this is your Alfred - I have no further information about him.

June

David Bawden
23-02-07, 21:30
David,

You mentioned an Alfred Nylund - gone to America. I have some data on an Alfred Nylund that was given to me. He was born 22 Sep 1875 and went to America 1895. He married about 1900 to Ida Sofia Andersdotter Majander, b. 7 Oct 1867, Karleby. She had emigrated to Ludington, MI and was married first to Alfred Nylund, and remarried to Johan Jonsson. She lived in Oregon.

Alfred had children: Adina, Edith, Edna, Walter, Irving. Family lived in Rhinelander, WI 1910 and 1920.

Don't know if this is your Alfred - I have no further information about him.

June

:) Thank you so much. I'll file this information and research it further. Christina was able to obtain the Finnish addresses of my 2nd cousins and I'm awaiting a conversation with them. In the next few weeks I'll be able to check out some Communion Books for Purmo and they may help as well.

Dave

David Bawden
25-02-07, 03:32
David
Have you got any dates for birth of any of the people you are loking for. I have about 10.000 persons in my database for Purmo so maybe...

The critical problem that seems to be emerging is to find the parents and farm of Petter Pettersson, born 11.02.1836. Married 23.03,1836 to Greta Lisa Persdtr, Pitkajarvi, Naars.

He shows up on the 1875 and 1880 census living with his brother, Johan, born about 1827 at Bäcksbacka. I thought they were the sons of Pehr Johanson, Härbärge...Herberge. The records do show Pehr as having a son Johan at that date but no Petter. Bäcksbacka is close to Herberge on the map.

Peter had a bunch of kids at Bäacksbacka including Anna Louise Petterson born 26.12.1875, Alfred Petterson, 02,02,1877, Anders Petterson, 23.09.1880, Viktor Petterson, 1887 = my grandfather, and Selma Petterson, 30.12.1890.

Someone in the TALKO data base has done research on Maria Andersdotter Sjoblom, the wife of Anders Petterson, but I do not have access to that data base yet:mad:

The other problem is my grandmother, Hannah Nylund, born 11.03.1887 to a Matt Johnson and Greta Erickson no marriage or birth dates:mad: . I have no idea where Matt and Greata lived to have all their kids including Johan Viktor Nylund born 22.11.1872, Herman Nylund born 24.01.1878, Emma Nylund no dates, Alfred Nylund no dates, Maria Nyland born 05.10.1889, and Manda Nylund no dates.

Kaj Granlund
26-02-07, 13:41
There must be some dates wrong in the dates for Petter. He cannot have married just one month old!

Kaj Granlund
27-02-07, 08:24
Pehr Jonasson S&#228;&#228;ksj&#228;rvi earlier H&#228;rberge born 10 nov 1803 in Purmo died 22 Apr 1847. married 9 apr 1826 to Lena Eriksdotter S&#228;&#228;ksj&#228;rvi earlier Mattjus born 21 jan 1796 in Purmo died 30 Jun 1856 in Purmo:

their son: Petter Pettersson B&#228;cksbacka earlier S&#228;&#228;ksj&#228;rvi born 2 Nov 1836 died 3 Sept 1896 married 23 Mar 1872 to Greta Lisa Pehrsdotter B&#228;cksbacka earlier Nars born 16 Nov 1844 died 28 Apr 1914. Name Nars spelled Nars or Naars

christina
27-02-07, 10:25
Kaj.
Is this the family?. I have a son Jonas Pettersson born in 17.7.1836. Something is wrong?

Christina Nordback



Herberge, Petter Jonasson.
Born 10.12.1803 in Purmo. Baptized 11.12.1803 in Purmo.

Father Bonds, Jonas Påhlsson.
Born 17.02.1771 in Bonds, Överpurmo, Pedersöre. Died 28.09.1834 in Herberge, Purmo. Buried 05.10.1834.

Mother Telgknif, Beata Persdotter.
Born 1770 in Telgknif, Forsby, Pedersöre. Died 01.07.1844 in Herberge, Purmo.
Buried 06.07.1844.

Married to.
Ersdotter, Lena.
Born 21.01.1796.

Child
Herberge, Johan Persson. Born 29.07.1826. Died 10.08.1828.
Herberge, Johan Persson. Born 12.09.1827. Died 10.08.1828.
Herberge, Jakob Persson. Born.
Herberge, Anna Beata Persdotter. Born 02.05.1829. Died 26.07.1829.
Herberge, Maja Lisa Perdotter. Born 13.06.1830. Died 11.09.1830.
Herberge, Lisa Persdotter. Born 14.08.1834 in Herberge, Purmo.
Herberge, Jonas Persson. Born 17.07.1836. Died 02.09.1842.
Herberge, Erik Persson. Born 05.09.1839. Died 16.12.1829.

Jaska Sarell
27-02-07, 11:51
Christina: "I have a son Jonas Pettersson born in 17.7.1836. Something is wrong?"

HisKi check:
born: 17.7.1838 22.7.1838 Härberge B. Pehr Jonaeson Lena Ersdr Jonas
died: 21.9.1842 25.9.1842 Herberge Bd.s. Jonas Petersson rödsot 4 2 4

That date makes Petter b. 11.02.1836 possible, though he is omitted from birth records.

:) Jaska

christina
27-02-07, 12:50
Sorry. I must have made a misstake when I wrote the data into my program.

Christina

Kaj Granlund
27-02-07, 14:03
I had the information I gave checked from the original churchrecords in Purmo. Petters date of birth is from the communionrecords.
You have Lenas year of birth wrong. Should be 1798.

christina
27-02-07, 16:02
Kaj.
You wrote earlier today ......Lena Eriksdotter Sääksjärvi earlier Mattjus born 21 jan 1796 in Purmo died 30 Jun 1856 in Purmo.....
I think I took the date from you.

Christina Nordback

christina
27-02-07, 16:19
What is the correct birthdate for Petter Pettersson?

Kaj wrote born 2 Nov 1836
Jaska wrote b. 11.02.1836

Christina Nordback

Jaska Sarell
27-02-07, 19:29
Hej Christina,

Now it was my turn to copy the date incorrectly. I took it from Kaj's message, but switched the day and the month. I didn't have anything about him in my data.
Some American influence :eek:

BTW. Would be interested about early Bonds.

:) Jaska

christina
27-02-07, 21:34
Here is my Bonds family.

Christina Nordback

NB! The corrected attachment is posted in one of Chistinas postings - the one in this message is therefore removed/Hasse

Jaska Sarell
27-02-07, 22:21
Hi Christina,
A quick comment on Johan Andersson Bonds in table 2.
He doesn't belong to parents in table 1, but was born 14.04.1726 as a son of Anders Hansson Bonds (~1698 - 1781) and Carin Mattsdotter Tarvonen (~1696 - 1749).
Anders Hansson was brother of Beata Hansdotter Bonds.
Sister Maria married to Carin's brother Johan Mattson Tarvonen.
"Måg" Anders Påhlsson's origin unknown to me.

:) Jaska

christina
28-02-07, 10:21
Hasse
Här kommer den rättade filen.

Christina

David Bawden
28-02-07, 20:58
There must be some dates wrong in the dates for Petter. He cannot have married just one month old!

:eek: Sorry, I was so excited about your help, I screwed up the typing. That was "March 23, 1872". I looked in the 1860 Communion Books and found a "Dr eng Pehr Pehrsson (2.11.1836)" under the "P" at the end of the book showing Sexjarri as the farm. My hand-me-down records also note a sequence of Herberge-Sexjo-Bäcksbacka. I just checked the 1840 census for Herberge and Sexjarri but did not find him there or his brother Johan. What does the "Dr eng" mean?

David Bawden
28-02-07, 21:23
Pehr Jonasson Sääksjärvi earlier Härberge born 10 nov 1803 in Purmo died 22 Apr 1847. married 9 apr 1826 to Lena Eriksdotter Sääksjärvi earlier Mattjus born 21 jan 1796 in Purmo died 30 Jun 1856 in Purmo:

their son: Petter Pettersson Bäcksbacka earlier Sääksjärvi born 2 Nov 1836 died 3 Sept 1896 married 23 Mar 1872 to Greta Lisa Pehrsdotter Bäcksbacka earlier Nars born 16 Nov 1844 died 28 Apr 1914. Name Nars spelled Nars or Naars

Perfect! You supplied a critical piece of information. These match the records I was given by my 90 year old cousin who was active in the Swede-Finn community here in Seattle.

Sääksjäarvi must also be Sexjärri and Sexjo or is Sääksjäarvi another place?

Kaj Granlund
02-03-07, 22:45
Sorry, My faualt. I was in such a hurry...

K-G Molander
26-03-07, 18:48
"What does the "Dr eng" mean?"

I think it is meant to be "Dreng", that is a farmhand.

Kaj Granlund
28-03-07, 21:42
Sexsj&#246; - S&#228;&#228;ksj&#228;rvi, Sexj&#228;rvi (should not be -j&#228;rri) Is all the same place. Sexsj&#246; is the Swedish name the other Finnish variations of the name. In 1800 there were no strict rules for the written language espcially not the Finnish language. And that's the reason why the names might differ in spelling. But I think S&#228;&#228;ksj&#228;rvi was the name used in 1800 and the swedish version came somewhat later

David Bawden
29-03-07, 06:05
Thanks Kaj. You and the others here on the Finlander Forum have been extremely helpful. Your attention to detail, accurate research, and shared interest have been an inspiration. A special thanks to Christina. I think she and I may be distant cousins! I hope to travel back to Purmo in the next few years and would love to sit down over a cup of coffee and learn about each of your stories.

Dave

David Bawden
08-05-07, 18:44
:D I was finally able to find my missing Petter in the Communion Books for 1843 and 1852 with his parents and brother at Sexsjärvi. Thank you for all of the leads! I will now begin the search of the maternal side of my Finnish roots.