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View Full Version : Death dates Gustaf Simonsson Wärn and Caisa Lisa Mård



Karen Norwillo
01-01-08, 17:42
I am looking for the dates of death of my gggrandparents, Gustaf Simonsson Wärn, born 1822 and his wife, Caisa Lisa Simonsdotter Mård, born 1823. They were still living for the 1880 household rolls in Esse. The records for HISKI and FFHA don't go any later for Esse. Maybe Kaj can find them in his church books. Karen

Kaj Granlund
02-02-08, 16:58
Gustaf Dies 10 Jan 1899 in Esse and she 21 Jan 1904. Do you need information about their family please contact me

Karen Norwillo
02-02-08, 17:13
Thank you, Kaj. I'll look over my info and see if there are any more blanks. Gustaf and Caisa were the parents of my great-grandmother, Greta Lisa Wärn.
I believe I erred with Caisa's second name, I believe it's Lena not Lisa. Karen

Ayla
02-02-08, 18:47
Hi Karen,

I haven't looked at my grandfather's side properly yet but I have a few details. I know this doesn't help your question but I just wanted to let you know that my great great great grandmother (I think I have this right) was called Brita Simonsdotter Wärn born 16.06.1802 Esse d. 27.05.1860 Esse.
I'm pretty sure there are 3 greats there. :)
Any link here? Do you know this name?
Looking back further there are more Wärns in my family but it's a case of working out who is who! :D

Ayla
xxx

cdahlin
02-02-08, 19:56
To Ayla and Karen!

Both persons are registered in a willage farm register that the citizens of Wärnum in Esse have published.

I have the book "Wärnum - byn i vårt Esse" with all this information. Unfortunately I have not put all the information into my database yet. If there is something particular you want to know you can contact Kaj or me.

I could scan the families you want to know and send you.

Christian

Karen Norwillo
02-02-08, 20:06
Christian,
I was just going to start looking for siblings to Greta Lisa. She's the only child I presently have for that family. Any additional info you can find will be greatly appreciated by me and Ayla. Perhaps her Brita is a sister to my Gustaf. Thank you so much. Karen

Kaj Granlund
02-02-08, 20:30
Gustaf is the half brother of Brita

Karen Norwillo
02-02-08, 20:46
Kaj,
I've been browsing through Talko and find that there are at least 6 or 7 children born to Gustaf Simonsson Wärn and Caisa Lena Simonsdotter Mård. I found a Carl Gustafsson twice with different dates of birth. Perhaps the earlier one died and it's a case of giving the same name. I also found that Simon Petter Pehrsson Hatt, his father, was married 3 times, first to Elisabet Carlsdotter Wärn in 1801, then Brita Mickelsdotter Lillkrokvik in 1810 and then to Margareta (Greta) Mickelsdotter Lillkrokvik in 1811. Margareta was Gustaf's mother. Was Elisabet Carlsdotter Brita's mother?
Simon Petter Simonsson Wärn was the son of Brita Mickelsdotter. Were Brita and Margareta sisters? Börie Vestö's Gedcom was most useful. Karen

Kaj Granlund
02-02-08, 20:47
Gustaf WÄRN, b. 27-09-1822 in Esse, congregation Esse ev.luth., d. 10-01-1899 in Esse, , occupation Backstugusittare. He married Kajsa Lena MÅRD, married 25-03-1846 in Esse, b. 21-04-1823 in Esse, (daughter of Simon Mattson Mård earlier Brännbacka and Lisa Andersdotter Mård) congregation Esse ev.luth., d. 21-11-1904 in Esse,
I. Simon WÄRN, b. 13-01-1845 in Esse, congregation Esse ev.luth., d. 1855 in Esse,
II. Greta Lisa LÅNGSJÖ t WÄRN, b. 21-11-1847 in Esse, congregation Esse ev.luth., d. 11-02-1917 in Esse,. She married Anders Johanson LÅNGSJÖ, married 20-03-1872 in Esse, b. 24-12-1840 in Esse Långsjö, (son of Johan Pehrssn LÅNGSJÖVATTEN and Anna Andersdr LÅNGSJÖVATTEN t FLINCK) congregation Esse ev.luth., confirmation in Esse, utflyttat 08-02-1866 to Tammerfors Finland, d. 29-07-1910 in Esse
III. Karl WÄRN, b. 26-01-1850 in Esse, congregation Esse ev.luth., d. 1851 in Esse.
IV. Kajsa Lena MATTBÄCK t WÄRN, b. 01-06-1852 in Esse, d. ---, moved 20-07-1885 to Sibbo, She married Matts MATTBÄCK, married 27-12-1874 in Esse, b. 31-03-1847 in Esse, d. ---, moved 20-07-1885 to Sibbo, occupation Inhysing.
V. Karl WÄRN, b. 19-05-1855 in Esse, congregation Esse ev.luth., d. ---, moved 08-05-1878 to Pedersöre,. He married Helena Sofia Eriksdr GUNNILA, married 28-06-1878 in Pedersöre.
VI. Anna Lovisa WÄRN, b. 02-11-1857 in Esse, congregation Esse ev.luth., d. 14-07-1858 in Esse
VII. Maja Sofia WÄRNÅ t WÄRN, b. 02-10-1859 in Esse, d. ---, moved 12-12-1901 to Pedersöre, She married Johan BACK, married 30-04-1880 in Esse, b. 09-06-1855 in Esse, (son of Johan M:ssn WÄRNÅ t TEIRFOLK t BACK and Brita Lisa Simonsdr WÄRNÅ t MÅRD) d. ---, moved 12-12-1901 to Pedersöre,
VIII. Anders Gustaf WÄRN, b. 24-03-1862 in Esse, d. ---, moved 25-10-1893 to Munsala He married Brita Kajsa Jakobsdotterr, lived in Munsala Monäs.
IX. Matts WÄRN, b. 12-12-1864 in Esse, congregation Esse ev.luth., d. 01-01-1939,.
X. Simon Petter SUNDKVIST t WÄRN, b. 27-03-1869 in Esse, congregation Esse ev.luth., d. 21-02-1934 in Esse,. He married (1) Maja Greta SUNDKVISTe WÄRN e WÄRNÅ, married 22-04-1887 in Esse, b. 21-07-1860 in Esse, (daughter of Johan M:ssn WÄRNÅ t TEIRFOLK t BACK and Brita Lisa Simonsdr WÄRNÅ t MÅRD) congregation Esse ev.luth., d. 20-06-1927 in Esse,. He married (2) Hanna SUNDKVIST e FORSBERG e LILLKUNG, married 03-02-1929 in Esse, b. 04-10-1872 in Esse, d. ---, came 11-11-1909 from Jakobstad, moved 15-07-1950 to Jakobstad,

Kaj Granlund
02-02-08, 21:08
If I remember correct they were sisters, but as they are not born members of Esse lutheran but of Kronoby. I haven't got that information in my records

Karen Norwillo
02-02-08, 21:39
Thank you again, Kaj. Did some checking on Hiski records and found Simon Pehrsson Katt married Elisabet Carlsdotter 29.10.1801. She died 24.11.1809. He married Brita Michelsdotter in 1810. She died 18.02.1814 just one day after giving birth to Simon Petter on 17.02.1814. He died 26.05.1815. She had an earlier daughter Margareta born 10.04.1911 who also died. He married Margareta Michelsdotter 17.09.1814, not 1811. The Simon Petter Simonsson born 8 Jul 1820 was born to Margareta, Brita had already died.
Thank you again for the family of Gustaf Wärn and Kajsa/Caisa Lena Mård.

Jaska Sarell
03-02-08, 01:00
Simon Petter's 2nd and 3rd wives were indeed sisters.
Births of all three in HisKi:
http://hiski.genealogia.fi/hiski/?en+0659+kastetut+2180
http://hiski.genealogia.fi/hiski/?en+0172+kastetut+6796
http://hiski.genealogia.fi/hiski/?en+0172+kastetut+6162

:) Jaska

cdahlin
03-02-08, 10:27
Hello!

Here is Brita and Gustaf with their siblings from all three marriages.

Their father was born on Katt farm in Pedersöre. Their mother was born on Wärnå. The familynumbers refer to other families in the same book. If you want further information on a specific family I could scan that too.

Christian

cdahlin
03-02-08, 13:40
From Hiski, here is the birth of Simon Petter Simonsson Katt-Wärn. His family can be traced further.

Christian

Birth date Village Farm Father Mother Child

20.10.1779 Ytterpurmo Katte Pehr Michelson Lisa Johansdr. 40 Simon Petter

Karen Norwillo
03-02-08, 16:18
Thank you to everyone who gave me so much new info and helped to clarify my questions. Ayla, it would appear your Brita and my Gustaf were half-siblings born 20 years apart to different mothers, same fathers.
Small question, what do the initials nd. mean after the name of Margareta on her 10.04.1811 birth in Esse on Hiski?
Karen

Jaska Sarell
03-02-08, 18:28
Hi Karen,

Obviously the baby seemed to be so weak that the parents thought she will not live long enough for normal baptism by the pastor.
nd. = nöddöpt = emergency baptized
Harri Hirvelä's "historismi.net" (http://www.saunalahti.fi/hirvela/indexuk.html) has a good collection of such abbreviations.
Baptism by some older relative was later confirmed by the pastor, if the baby lived further.

:) Jaska

Ayla
03-02-08, 19:35
Hi Karen,

Maybe I need to start working on my grandfather's side now then :D
I checked, Brita is my 3rd great grandmother......so we are related? :D I can't work it out, I'm still a newbie!!! :D :D

Karen Norwillo
03-02-08, 19:56
Yes, somehow we are distantly related. My Roots Magic program tells me I am Brita's half great-greatgrandniece. Gustaf was a greatgrandfather on my father's side.
Thank you, Jaska, for that explanation of the emergency baptism. Karen

cdahlin
03-02-08, 21:46
Hello Karen and Ayla!

After surfing on Hiski I found the following ancestors of Simon Petter Pehrsson Katt:

Simon Petter Pehrsson Katt (b.20 Oct 1779-Katt,Pedersöre;d.31 Oct 1850-Wärnå,Esse)

Father: Pehr Mickelsson Katt (b.5 Apr 1738-Katt,Pedersöre;m.26 Oct 1760)
Grandfather: Mickel Mattsson Katt (m.28 Oct 1728)
Grandmother: Carin Månsdotter

Mother: Lisa Johansdotter Lillkåll (b.10 Apr 1735-Kållgränden,Cathernö)
Grandfather: Johan Matzon Lillkåll
Grandmother: Maria

Christian

Karen Norwillo
04-02-08, 01:05
Thanks. I have most of my grandmother's family thanks to June and Jaska and Kaj Granlund and other kind people on Finlander. I'm trying to flesh out what is still unknown. I'll have to submit a new GedCom to Hasse. I have so much added info since the old one, along with some corrections. Karen

June Pelo
04-02-08, 01:46
Christian,

The SoB 34, Tab. 1, 2, 3, etc. have Katt information.

June

Jaska Sarell
04-02-08, 02:54
Karen and Ayla,

I figure that Karen and Ayla's mother are 4th cousins through Simon Petter Pehrsson Katt- Wärn.
Starting like shown in the attachment.
There are other more distant connections as well.

:) Jaska

Karen Norwillo
04-02-08, 15:49
Thanks, Jaska. It seems we're all related some way if we look far enough.
Hi cousin Ayla. Glad to find another cousin. Karen

budjohnson
04-02-08, 16:29
Hi Cousin
So Greta Mickelsdr was the Margareta Mickelsdr born in Karkeby and the sister of Simon Petter's second wife Brita, correct?
Bud

June Pelo
04-02-08, 17:33
Margaretha Mickelsdotter Lillkrokvik, b. 1812 in Karleby, married Petter Bergendahl. Their son Petter married one of my Pelo relatives and they had a daughter Selma who married Leander Mattsson Fagernäs, and their daughter Inez has a son Lou Mattson who is a member of SFHS.

June

Karen Norwillo
04-02-08, 18:31
Bud,
Our Margareta (Greta) Mickelsdotter Lillkrokvik was born in 1782 and indeed was the sister of Brita. They were 2 of the 3 wives of Simon Petter Pehrsson Katt. Records show them born Öjan or Öjarna village, Lillkrokvik farm in Karleby. See Christian Dahlin's post with all 3 wives. Öijarna also found as a spelling of village. Not sure which is correct. Karen

budjohnson
04-02-08, 19:41
Bud,
Our Margareta (Greta) Mickelsdotter Lillkrokvik was born in 1782 and indeed was the sister of Brita. They were 2 of the 3 wives of Simon Petter Pehrsson Katt. Records show them born Öjan or Öjarna village, Lillkrokvik farm in Karleby. See Christian Dahlin's post with all 3 wives. Öijarna also found as a spelling of village. Not sure which is correct. Karen

Karen

Thats what I thought. I wasn't sure until I went back to HISKI and found the mother of Brita Mickelsdotter and Margareta Mickelsdotter was listed as both Greta and Margareta (or forms of that name) depending on the child listed.
So the link between Simon Petter Pehrsson (Katt farm Pedersöre) and Simon Petter (NO Patronymic) is his first wife?

Bud

Hasse Andtbacka
04-02-08, 20:06
Today's spelling is Öja, but it has varied a lot during the centuries. Öja, öarna means the Islands.
We lived in Öja for 9 years, between Lillkrokvik and Krokvik.
Hasse A

Karen Norwillo
04-02-08, 21:20
Thanks, Hasse. Someday I would love to visit all the little places found in my family tree. I saw a few in 2004, but not alot. Will be touring a different region this May, Rovaniemi, Salla and hopefully at least the church and graveyard in Kemijärvi. Karen

Bud, Not sure what you mean, but Simon Petter Pehrsson, born Katt, took the Wärn/Wärna name of his first wife, Elisabet (Lisa) Then he married Brita and then her sister Margareta (Greta). Our families come down through Gustaf Simonsson Wärn and Caisa Lena Mård. Gustaf was son of third wife. With or without the patronymic, it's the same Simon Petter. Karen

cdahlin
04-02-08, 21:33
I have written it before, and in this case it looks the same. When a mother dies, leaving small children, her younger sister often gets married with her sister's widower.

So is obviously the case with Simon Petter's 2nd and 3rd wife too.

To me it brings some kind of understanding to the way of thinking in those days. Marriage probably did not always come from "love", but also from the need to have a woman taking care of motherless children. Not meaning that they did not "love" each other. But you can show "love" in many ways...

Christian

cdahlin
04-02-08, 21:38
Thanks June!

I will buy that number of S&B

Christian

Ayla
05-02-08, 11:19
My goodness! What a small world we live in! Hi cousin Karen :) , I'm going to Finland in August, shame it's not at the same time, we could have met up!
Thank you to everyone who added to this thread, fascinating stuff.
Ayla