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View Full Version : Help! Where is Sokman , Warsw, Finland ???



Sue Heerey
17-05-08, 06:59
Hullo
I've just registered , and was very pleased to discover this Forum.

I live in Melbourne, Australia.
My grandmother (Elizabeth Holms or Holmstrum, ) emigrated from Finland to Australia in the 19th Century. Until recently all that was known by the family was that she was Finnish, born 15 August 1871, her father may have been Jewish, may have been called Isaac, her mother may have been Lutheran , and that when she was young she used to have to hide in a cellar when the cossacks rode through her village. That was it.

I have very recently located her naturalisation papers in the National Archives in Australia which give more information.

These state: Nationality was "Russian Fin", that she left from "Warsaw, Finland " and arrived in South Australia on a German Mail Steamer in 1891.
She gives her place of birth as "Sokman, Warsw, Finland " .

I can't find Sokman anywhere in Finland, and don't undertand the link between Warsaw and Finland -was Poland under Finnish Russian rule at the time she was born in 1871 ? ? Don't know how where to go next and would greatly appreciate any information .


All replies or hints are very welcome indeed .

Kind Regards
Sue

Ayla
17-05-08, 15:30
Warm welcome to you Sue! You are about to embark on an exciting journey, hold on tight and enjoy the ride!
I'm pretty new to family research so can't answer your questions but there are many wonderful friends here who are fountains of knowledge. They are sure to get your started on your journey.
Have a lovely weekend and good luck with it.
Warm Wishes
Ayla (in London)

June Pelo
17-05-08, 17:04
Welcome Sue. I tried to find an Elisabeth Holm or Holmström, b. 15 Aug 1871 in Finland. And found only two born on that date. One was born in Pori/Björneborg to a seaman named Johan Gustaf Renfors. The other was born in Viipuri/Viborg to farmer Johan Kinnari. There were families with names of Holm or Holmström, but they had no daughter Elisabet born on that date, and none of the fathers was named Isaac. I didn't find any place named Sokman. In 1871 Finland was a Grand Duchy of Russia and many documents will show "Russia" instead of Finland. My father's uncle's papers show him denouncing allegiance to the Tzar of Russia, even though he was born in Finland. Perhaps a member in Finland can figure out where Sokman is.

Pori - Björneborg - christened

Born Christened Village Farm Father Mother Child
15.8.1871 17.8.1871 Staden Sjöman Johan Gustaf Renfors h:u Anna Lisa Johansd:r (f: 23.5.-37) Ida Elisabeth


Viipurin msrk - Viborgs lf - christened

Born Christened Village Farm Father Mother Child
15.8.1871 28.8.1871 Yläsäiniö N:o 3. Bonden Johan Kinnari hu Maria Liukkonen 25 Maria Elisabet

Karen Norwillo
17-05-08, 17:39
Welcome. The Warsaw, Finland could actually be Wasa or Waasa, Finland. To the untrained ear sounds very similar. Both Finland and Poland were Russian dominated at that time. Karen

kivinen1
17-05-08, 18:09
Hello,

I've got friends that come from Sakkola, which is now on the Russian side in Karjala (Karelia). Don't know if this helps, but sounds similar.

Sue Heerey
17-05-08, 18:15
I have to confess I have never gone on a forum before -so am not sure how to reply to you ! I will have to wait until my son gets up in the morning and get him to show me what to do so that I can reply properly ....
A little more information that may be helpful is that Elizabet (so the story goes) had a sister already in Australia and one in America -after a big fight with her father /brother after one of them had remarried, she asked which country was the furthest from Finland , was told Australia and said that's where she was going -very feisty apparently !

I checked Broken hill New South Wales Australia BDM to see if there were any other young female Holms about the same age who may have been the older sister who had left earlier(Broken Hill was where Elizabet was first married -one of three marriages , I'm from the third with a Norwegian ) - , and found a Sohia Holms who had settled ther and married a couple of years before Elizabet arrived -Sophia was my mothers middle name so i thought that might be a bit of a link -but can find nothing more about what happened to Broken Hill Sophia.

Please excuse if above sounds a bit garbled , is very late here and I am way past my bed time !

- Will get the expert assistance up in the morning so I can write properly .

Thank you again for the encouragement
Cheers etc
Sue

o

June Pelo
18-05-08, 02:04
Sue, you're doing everything right - your reply came through OK. I had a thought about Sokman - could it be the name of a farm somewhere in Vasa? I also noted that Sokman is a surname in Estonia.

My maternal grandmother came from Pedersöre and she told about the cossacks riding through the farms, killing everyone as they rode through the area.

Denise
18-05-08, 02:43
Hi Sue,
Welcome to the Finlander Forum. I think this is your Elisabeth Swensen that I have found on the Institute of Migration! :D http://www.migrationinstitute.fi/index_e.php

Best Regards,
Denise


Detailed information (Australian Finns)

Last name Swensen
First names Elisabeth
Naturalization 1911/8179
Date of birth 1871
Birth place Vaasa
Birth province Vaasan lääni
Date of arrival to Australia 1891
Marital status Naimisissa, 3 M A, 2 F A
Wife/husband -
Address in Australia Carey St., Bunbury, W.A.
Occupation in Australia Housewife
English proficiency -
Travel route / ship From Finland to Adelaide
Places of residence in Australia Broken Hill 10 years, Boulder 7 years, Bunbury 3 years.
Consulate's register # -
Consulate's register number -
Occupation -
Date of Passport -
Additional passport information -
SHO identification # -
Date of departure from Finland -
Age -
Route / price -
Additional ticket information -
Consulate's archive information -
Information from Swedish archives -
Additional information -

Sue Heerey
18-05-08, 04:26
Hi Sue,
Welcome to the Finlander Forum. I think this is your Elisabeth Swensen that I have found on the Institute of Migration! :D http://www.migrationinstitute.fi/index_e.php

Best Regards,
Denise

Denise that is amazing
Have had 5 second tutorial and at least can reply to individual now -can't do big grin but will learn soon !!! can only do exclamations !!!!
Wow -How did you do that ??
How did you find her ?? Thats Grandma alright -I have been trawling through the Institute of Migration site in the past with no luck. When I received your post , I went back in and thought she must be registered as swensen -and still couldn't find anything . Swensen was her third husbands name -my grandfather . She was married to him when she was naturalised in 1911.

Does the information on the migration site have her maiden name ??

Can I access it ? I have only done free searches so far as I did not have any real idea of how to use it .
Grandma registered some of her children using Holmestrom/holmstrom/Holms as maiden name .
I am going now immediately to google her town -I am so excited -am supposed to be clearing up our work room today -but I think thats just gone on hold -thank you again so much

I hope my queries aren't a nuisance for you -Kindest regards
sue

Sue Heerey
18-05-08, 04:43
Sue, you're doing everything right - your reply came through OK. I had a thought about Sokman - could it be the name of a farm somewhere in Vasa? I also noted that Sokman is a surname in Estonia.

My maternal grandmother came from Pedersöre and she told about the cossacks riding through the farms, killing everyone as they rode through the area.

Hi June
Ayla is right there is a whole learning curve here for me-I had struggled to a bit of understanding about the relevence of farm names when hunting up Granpa swensen, elizabeth's husband who was from Norway. (Just as an aside , i had thought I had found him plus a whole heap of cousins in the states , but sadly -was wrong Swensen !! )

I was wondering about Grandam towards the latter part of her life started to use the name Mary Swensen . I had thought that maybe was a Catholic confirmation name or some such that she had been given when she converted to Catholicism -her first two husbands were Irish -but I was wiondering if that was her proper first name.
So maybe she is a Mary Holstrom //
I am amazed at the information that has come from this forum -it has been a big dark place in the Family tree , I can't tell you how good it is to see some light coming in.

Again -my thanks
Also -did I see your name as receiving an award for services to Finnish family Histories ?? Can't quite recall , but I thought I saw a photo of a rather nice award with your name nearby ?

Again , excuse effusiveness am usually quite sedate .

Kind Regards
Sue

Sue Heerey
18-05-08, 04:55
Warm welcome to you Sue! You are about to embark on an exciting journey, hold on tight and enjoy the ride!
I'm pretty new to family research so can't answer your questions but there are many wonderful friends here who are fountains of knowledge. They are sure to get your started on your journey.
Have a lovely weekend and good luck with it.
Warm Wishes
Ayla (in London)
Hi Ayla
I had a lot of fun reading your posts and looking at your photos -prior to plucking up nerve to post my query -amazing what denise and june have come up with -and all the suggestions have been so kind .
I only hope I can get a bit more literate about the Finnish system soon!
Again many thanks
Sue

Ayla
18-05-08, 13:23
Hi Sue,
Ahh, thank you! ;)
You made me laugh when you said were meant to be cleaning up or something. Reminds me about when I started back in December, it was so amazing when the info started coming in, the dinner didn't get cooked, the children were left to run riot in the house,the ironing pile became mountains, dare I go on! :D :D
As for everyone here, I told you they were amazing. We are so so lucky to have them! I have learned so very much and am still learning. I wouldn't be anywhere else. One thing I advise you to do is get your info organised now otherwise you will end up with bits of paper all over the place and then get very confused. Everyone has their own systems and things that work best for them so they can tell you their methods. I use a notebook for each family I am looking for, it is amazing how much info comes up and you do need to keep hold of it to cross reference etc. Now I am also using some software on the computer to input my information so I am building my family tree using it.
I'm still getting used to it all and it is taking AGES but lots of fun.
Also, I can't tell you the amount of times you will go off on a tangent to look for something else that came up which may or may not be linked to what you were looking for in the first place:D again, lots of fun!
As for the smilies etc, as you type your message, on the right there is a box of them visible, just click on the one you want and it will appear in your text. This works when you reply to a message, not sure if it is visible when you hit 'quick reply', my replies are never short :) I can talk for England!

Above all, enjoy it!
Ayla

granskare
18-05-08, 17:09
Sue, you're doing everything right - your reply came through OK. I had a thought about Sokman - could it be the name of a farm somewhere in Vasa? I also noted that Sokman is a surname in Estonia.

My maternal grandmother came from Pedersöre and she told about the cossacks riding through the farms, killing everyone as they rode through the area.

well, no help to you but it must have been the same band of cossacks because my grandmother who lived in the Voltti /Alaharma area talked of hiding in the cellar from the cossacks.

ps, Jeannette is from the Brisbane area and she's quite experienced with aussie genealogy involving swedes and finns so might be nice for you two to talk, as it were
chuck:)

Denise
18-05-08, 18:32
Hi Sue,
On the Institute of Migration they have different categories, and the one I found Elisabeth Swensen in was "Australian Finns". You have to subscribe to have total access, I think it was about $40.00 US but it is definitely worth it for all the info. I have gotten off that site. Do you have names of other relations that lived in Australia that you would like me to check? The site did not have any other info. on Elisabeth such as maiden name, etc. :(

Best Regards,
Denise

June Pelo
18-05-08, 21:46
Sue,

Yes, that's me. I was awarded the Silver Badge of Merit by Suomi-Seura (Finland Society). You have a sharp memory and an eagle eye! You mentioned the name Mary Swensen. In Finland it probably was Maria. My grandmother's name was Maria, but in the US everyone called her Mary. Denise found this:
Naturalization 1911/8179
Date of birth 1871
Birth place Vaasa
Birth province Vaasan lääni

It shows 'naturalization 1911/8179'. Would that be the year? If you have a copy of the paper it may show where she was born in Vasa, Finland as well as the birthdate in 1871.

Chuck,
It's good to see you online again. My grandmother said that she was hidden under a pile of clothing and escaped the cossack's sabers.

Kaj Granlund
18-06-08, 08:42
if that Maria is born in Wasa (-region) I think the name of the birthplace might be a farmname in Swedish. Probably somebody just "heard" the word and transcripted it like it sounded to them. So probably the last part "man" is the same. The beginning could be for example "Söder" - so Söderman. Isaac /Isak wasn't that uncommon name among the lutheran males here either. If the story about hiding in the cellar from the cossacs (some what the same as my granmother told us she did) I think it refers to the countryside and not the city of Wasa.