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Denise
16-06-08, 18:12
Hi,
I am hoping to get guidance on how to proceed with the following ancestors of mine as I do not read the Swedish language and I have found many links while googling on these names. There is much controversy so I am copying and pasting the following information from my "sister" in Finland, Merja Syrjamaki regarding my query, so you all will understand my dilemma. :confused: Abraham Fredrikinpoikä Bergström is my 4th great grandfather born 12 Oct. 1792 Virrat, died 18 Dec. 1857 Jalasjärvi, married 10 Nov. 1822. On Hiski the only child born on that birthdate of 12 Oct. 1792 in Virrat is a Fredric born to an unwed mother Maria Henricsdr.


Virrat - Virdois
Christened
Born / Christened 12.10.1792 13.10.1792
Village / Farm Kiviniemi
Father - -
Mother Maria Henricsd:r
Child Fredric (oä)


The following is what Merja has written to me....:)

(Quote) "He seems to be quite a mystery,
having been discussed several times on Finnish message boards, without
definitely identifying his parents. This is what is known:

First, his wife, who is well known: Liisa Matintytär (Lisa
Mattsdotter) Yli-Piirto b.30th Jan 1800 Ilmajoki d. 30th Sept 1872
Jalasjärvi. Married 10th Nov 1822 to Abraham Bergström. Lisa´s parents
were Matti Yli-Piirto, earlier Petäys, farmer. b. 3rd Aug 1750
Jalasjärvi d. 22nd Apr 1819 Ilmajoki and Beata Juhontytär Ala-Reinikka
b. 30th Jan 1767 Kurikka d.25th Feb 1798 Kurikka. Liisa moved to
Jalasjärvi from Ilmajoki (Ilmola in Swedish) Liisa is mentioned to be
blind in the 1832-37 church book and forwards

Abraham and Lisa´s children:
Maria b. 23rd May 1824 d. 26th Aug 1831
Isaac b. 19th Dec 1825 d. 19th Aug 1831
Albertina b. 10th Apr 1825 d. 21st Aug 1831
Matts b. 26th Feb 1830 Jalasjärvi Jokipii
Fredrika Wilhelmina b. 6th March 1833 Jalasjärvi
Gretha Sophia b. 13th Dec 1834 Jalasjärvi
Abraham Nils b. 1st July 1837 Jalasjärvi
Jacob b.16th July 1839 Jalasjärvi
Lovisa b. 2nd Jan 1841 Jalasjärvi

The family lives in the tenant farm of Öljymäki in Jokipii farm,
Jalasjärvi. Source records:
Jalasjärvi mf Uk 139 1824-31 Kyrkoby p.194 Ylijokipii
Jalasjärvi mf UK 139 1824-31 Jokipii by p.301
Jalasjärvi mf UK 139 1831-37 Ylijokipii p.222
Jalasjärvi mf UK 139 rk 1824-30 p.115 Luokkakallio

Jalasjärvi church records give to Abraham the birthdate 12th Oct 1792
Virrat (Virdois in Swedish). He moves to Jalasjärvi from Virrat. On
the day mentioned above there is born only Fredric, son of Maria, no
father recorded (this is the record you found, too). His birth record
gives his mother as Maria Hencsdotter and the godparents as
Länsman.A.C. Bergström, Serg. Fredric Bergström, fru Juljana
Hillebrant, fru A.C.Långhielm, pig Margeta Ericsdotter och Regina
Henricsdotter, alla ifr Kiviniemi. In English the titles are: Länsman
was a local police officer, could be translated to Chief constable (he
was rather a high official in this time). Serg. is an abbreviation for
sergeant, fru is Mrs (a title not used of farmer wives), pig is maid.
All the godparents were from Kiviniemi where Maria also lived.

Maria was born 27th Dec 1759 in Virrat and died 21st Apr 1840 in
Jalasjärvi. She moved to Jalasjärvi and lived in the family of Abraham
and Lisa, she never married.

The godparents of Abraham can all be found in the Virrat church book
mf UK 497 1781-87, no page number to be seen on film.
Sergeanten och kronolänsman:
Jacob Joh.Bergström b. 15th Feb 1727
Wife Juliana Hillebrandt b.1744
Son Fredric Johan b. 11th Nov 1767
Son Alexander Christian b. 23rd Oct 1769
Daughter Gustafva Maria b. 11th Nov 1771
Son jacob Wilhelm b. 21st July 1774
Daughter Carolina Fredrika b. 21st Dec 1776

Jungfru (Miss) Maja Lisa Hillebrandt b. 1756

Pig (Maid) Maria Henricsdotter b. 27th Feb 1759

Abraham (this is probably him) is recorded as moving 9th Oct 1812 from
Virrat, Liedenpohja village to Jalasjärvi.
(http://www.digiarkisto.org/sshy/kirjat/virrat/muuttokirjoja_1808-1822_uk501/66.htm
) His name is given as Abram Nothus (Nothus means a boy born out of
wedlock)
Abraham moved to Ilmajoki 1819 but returned to Jalasjärvi 1819.

It would seem that he started to use the name Abram instead of
Fredrick at some point.

Abram´s father seems to be ( but this is not proved!) Fredrik Johan
Bergström b. 11th Nov 1767 in Ruovesi, baptized 18th Nov 1767. . This
is the same person mentioned above! He died 3rd Oct 1798 in Ilmajoki
at the age of 31. He was a kronslänsman, like his father. He married
1793 Anna Elisabet Starck b.4th Oct 1774. They had at least one child,
Anders Johan b. 8th June 1794 who died as a child.

Parents of Fredrik Johan Bergström were länsman Jakob Johan Bergström
b. 15th Aug 1727 Huittinen d. 7th Aug 1792 Virrat and Juliana
Charlotta Hillebrandt b. 1st Apr 1744 Turku d. 17th Aug 1802 Virrat.
They married 6th Nov 1766 Kuru. This was Fredrik JOhan Bergström´s
second marriage. His first wife was Regina Ruut b. 19th Sept 1709 d.
6th May 1766, married 5th March 1751 Teisko ( Teisko is today part of
Tampere!)

Fredrik Johan´s parents were Nils Bergström b. 30th June 1692
Södermanland Sweden d. 2nd June 1751 Teisko and Sara Arfslind b. 31st
Dec 1703 d. 27th Aug 1757 Ruovesi.

Most of this information comes from Penni Airas, a genealogist from
Seinäjoki who is a real expert who reads old documents from the 17th
or 16th century just like that. She has researched the ancestry of
Abram Bergström last summer when it was discussed in a Finnish message
board, from original church records. She says, however, that it
Abram´s ancestry is not verified beyond doubt and other documents,
like wills etc, should be found." (end quote)

The following link is what I found by googling: :)

http://www.malax.org/westside/oldside/discus/messages/144/1445.html?1194441142


The following is also from Merja Syrjamaki which I have copied and pasted.

"My query for Abram has created a lot of
discussion on the Finnish forum, regarding the issue of Abram´s
father. Some researchers think he is very likely Fredric Bergström´s
son, most decide more research would be needed. You decide yourself if
you want to include the Bergströms and Hillebrandts in your ancestors
or not. If you do, your ancestry leads to noble families and finally
to royalty ( I am told ) but of which country I have no idea. Someone
said they are on the internet but I do not know where."

So, I am going to proceed with my ancestry including the Bergström's and Hillebrandts, etc. :D Does anyone have further information on my ancestors? Or, where would I begin my search?

Thank-you for your time,
Sincerely,
Denise

P.S. Just wondering if I should run and buy a tiara!

kivinen1
16-06-08, 20:28
Hi,
I am hoping to get guidance on how to proceed with the following ancestors of mine as I do not read the Swedish language and I have found many links while googling on these names. There is much controversy so I am copying and pasting the following information from my "sister" in Finland, Merja Syrjamaki regarding my query, so you all will understand my dilemma. :confused: Abraham Fredrikinpoikä Bergström is my 4th great grandfather born 12 Oct. 1792 Virrat, died 18 Dec. 1857 Jalasjärvi, married 10 Nov. 1822. On Hiski the only child born on that birthdate of 12 Oct. 1792 in Virrat is a Fredric born to an unwed mother Maria Henricsdr. ...

Denise,

You don't say if this is on your maternal side or on your paternal side. You could deduce his paternal side, but you'll still need at least a cold paper trail to help.

IF he is a DIRECT male line ancestor to you, and you have a current direct male line male (your blood brother or a male child of your father's brother) to test, and a suspected link on the other side of the ocean (or here if they've ended up here as well), you can have the Y-chromosome tested to find out relatedness to these other people and deduce family that way.

IF he is a male on a DIRECT line of female ancestors, and you have access to other direct female line descendants in Finland (or where ever), you can test their and your mitochondrial DNA to determine relatedness, but this determines relatedness backward, from him to his mother and her mother etc.

I hope you are aware of these tools, but they only work if they are direct line connections, or to rule out the possibilities of direct line connections.

Did that make sense?

Denise
17-06-08, 05:22
Hi,
Abraham Fredriksson Bergström is on my maternal side, and the only living relatives would be my mother and her sister. Would that be sufficient? Never found myself involved in DNA testing and know very little about how it would work in my case in regards to Abraham Bergström's lineage.

Thank-you,
Denise

kivinen1
17-06-08, 21:53
Hi,
Abraham Fredriksson Bergström is on my maternal side, and the only living relatives would be my mother and her sister. Would that be sufficient? Never found myself involved in DNA testing and know very little about how it would work in my case in regards to Abraham Bergström's lineage.

Thank-you,
Denise
Denise,

In order to test the maternal side, you would need a sample from a descendant of Abraham's mother, or his sister, along with your own sample.

Please understand though, that IF this isn't an exact mother to mother to mother to mother to mother etc. connection, then this would be fruitless.