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Ayla
12-09-08, 13:43
Hi all,

I am trying to check some dates for my gr,gr,gr,gr,gr grandparents. I know that some of you will have them in you databases also. Please can I kindly ask, when you get some time, please can you check what you all have for them and let me know if it is the same as my details?
Huge thanks, here we go :

This is from my grandfather's side of the family.

My gr gr gr gr grandparents were :

Carl Mickelsson Kiisk b.20.12.1732 Pedersöre Lepplax
d. 25.06.1768 Esse

married on the 05.11.1758 Esse to

Margareta C. Klubb b.24.01.1740 Pedersöre Lepplax
d. 19.12.1802

Also, before them came:

Mickel Danielson Kanckos b. 17.08.1698
d. 19.05.1761

married on 25.12.1728 to

Margareta Jöransdotter b. 1704
d. 04.03.1785

Any chance any of you have a date for Margareta Jöransdotter's birth?Or even some places of birth and death? That 1704 looks a bit lonely! :)

Huge thanks
Ayla

cdahlin
12-09-08, 16:14
She was born 3 Jan 1704. Her father was Jöran Perthållar. Mother unknown.

Christian

Jaska Sarell
12-09-08, 16:16
Hello Ayla,

According to HisKi (Esse parish), death date for Margareta Christoffersdotter Klubb should be six years later, i.e. 19.12.1808. I had the same error :confused:

Birth year of Margareta Jöransdotter is calculated from death age of 81 years. Her place of origin is not stated in marriage record. Maybe that can be solved indirectly...

:) Jaska

P.S. Christian seemed to have an answer!

Karen Norwillo
12-09-08, 17:43
I have a different date of birth for Carl Mickelsson Kiisk. Hiski gives it as 1 Jan 1731 in Ytteresse, Esse. Parents match.
These names are all in my family. Mickel Danielsson Kanckos parents were Daniel Mattsson Stubb and Carin Påhlsdotter Kanckos.
Other than that, all your info matches mine.
Karen

Ayla
12-09-08, 18:34
Ok guys, thank you so very much.
I have just found a second cousin this week from my grandad's side and she is also interested in our family tree so we are comparing notes.
:)
You have all been a great help as always.
Any ideas where that big pot of gold is? :D

Jaska Sarell
12-09-08, 19:03
Karen,
How on earth your HisKi gives that date :confused: ?

Birth of Karl in HisKi (http://hiski.genealogia.fi/hiski/?en+0399+kastetut+1379)

:) Jaska

kivinen1
12-09-08, 19:15
Karen,
How on earth your HisKi gives that date :confused: ?

Birth of Karl in HisKi (http://hiski.genealogia.fi/hiski/?en+0399+kastetut+1379)

:) Jaska

Yes, this concerns me too. Was it a wild card * * that brought up 2 with the same parents names?

Ayla
12-09-08, 19:46
ok this is getting interesting!

Karen Norwillo
12-09-08, 20:16
Mea Culpa. My error. When I looked it up, I accidentally wrote down the old date I had previously. I don't remember who gave me that old date of 1731. Sorry. Karen

kivinen1
12-09-08, 20:21
Thanks Karen,

Darn paper, someday they'll make self correcting paper.

I did the same thing a couple of days ago, and was going around in circles until I figured out that I had written down someone else's information, and hadn't bothered to verify it. 3 hours later the light bulb went on.:)

Karen Norwillo
12-09-08, 20:31
For Mickel Danielsson Kanckos, I have that he died on Kiisk farm, Överesse, Esse. Same for his wife Margareta . Karen

cdahlin
12-09-08, 21:02
You are right, Karen. Mickel was a blacksmith on Kanckos farm in Ytteresse. He moved to Kiisk 1752 as the first settler.

*******************
Från Kanckos i Ytteresse flyttade smeden Michel Danielsson år 1752 till Kiisk. År 1752 anmäles att länsman och 2 nämndemän synat Kiisk nybyggnad.
*******************

I'm proud to be one of his numerous descendants.

Christian

Jaska Sarell
12-09-08, 21:03
For Mickel Danielsson Kanckos, I have that he died on Kiisk farm, Överesse, Esse. Same for his wife Margareta . Karen

It was Mickel Danielsson who established the Kiisk farm in 1752. His sons Carl and Johan continued after him.
Mickel's stepbrother Hans Danielsson Kanckos (1696-1770) and then his son Anders Hansson continued on Kanckos.

:) Jaska

June Pelo
12-09-08, 22:12
I might as well jump in and say I'm also related. Mickel Danielsson Kiisk was my 3rd cousin 3 times removed - through Kankkonen, etc. Also, I have found that Carl Mickelsson Kiisk, b. 1731, was the 5th great grandfather of SFHS member Vern Lindquist. Karen is also Carl's 1st cousin 7 times removed through Daniel Kanckos. So I guess we'll find that many others are also related to this family.

Ayla
13-09-08, 02:40
:D me too me too..of course!
These were my gr gr gr gr gr grandparents :)
I remember you all tellling me how we were related back in December but as a newbie I didn't get it!
Now I get it!
:))

christina
13-09-08, 10:22
June.
Can you explain what "3rd cousin 3 times removed " and "1st cousin 7 times removed " means.
Ayla wrote "These were my gr gr gr gr gr grandparents", what kind of cousin is she?

Hälsningar
Christina Nordback

Ayla
13-09-08, 15:47
I think that I would be a very 'confused' cousin :D

I look forward to hearing which one I would be but I suspect that I would be a different 'number' cousin for different members. :)

This is why I am only concentrating on my direct line at the moment, (from my great grandfather Johan Henrik Holmlund right back to Mickel Danielsson Kanckos 1698) otherwise I get so confused.

All info is so valuable to me so huge thanks once again, I file it all ready to work on once I finish my tree for my great grandparents' descendants to the present day. (which is soon hurray!!!) ;)

Ayla

cdahlin
13-09-08, 22:47
Hi Ayla!

I suppose you have information about Mickel Danielsson Kiisk's ancestors too. In my database I found 6 more generations on his maternal line (back to Påhl Påhlsson Kankkonen) and 4 generations on his paternal line (back to Grels Marcusson Stubb).:eek: :eek:

Christian

kivinen1
14-09-08, 07:12
Hi Ayla!

I suppose you have information about Mickel Danielsson Kiisk's ancestors too. In my database I found 6 more generations on his maternal line (back to Påhl Påhlsson Kankkonen) and 4 generations on his paternal line (back to Grels Marcusson Stubb).:eek: :eek:

Christian

I'd be curious about this Kankkonen line. My maternal great grandmother from Nedervetil had a 2nd husband on this side of the pond. Adolf Adolfsson Kankkonen... most likely from that line.

Not my relative, except as a "step", but still quite an interesting family, no doubt.

cdahlin
14-09-08, 12:10
This Adolf Adolfsson Kankkonen is not in my database. As far as I can see, all of these Kanckos/Kankkonen are descending from this same line.

The famous ski-jumper Veikko Kankkonen, the minister of Karleby Peter Kankkonen, the journalist Stig Kankkonen and many more are probably from this same line. The farm in Rödsö, Karleby is today still known as "Kanckos" although their name is Kankkonen.

From this Kankkonen family there were also settlers in Esse. They later began to use the name "Kanckos".

So it is probably a very big family if you want to clear it up.

Christian

Ayla
14-09-08, 13:00
Oh yeeeeeees, it is a HUGE family!
Christian, yes please, that would be fantastic if you can go back further, I would love to see it. All I have managed so far is the line that I said from my great grandfather back to 1698.
Have a lovely Sunday!

Ayla

cdahlin
14-09-08, 17:47
Hi Ayla!

Here it is! Something strange in his paternal line as you can see. The Granö-name appears on several places and some patronymics (Rafvaldsson-Larsson) appears. If someone has the right answer to these questionmarks I'd appreciate it. And so do you, I suppose.

Christian

June Pelo
14-09-08, 17:55
Påhl Påhlsson Kankkonen, b. ca 1530 in Savolax, was the son of Påhl Andersson Kankkonen, b. ca 1500 in Savolax. Adolf Adolfsson Kankkonen, b. 1856, Pyhäjoki, was related to Kankkonen through his father's mother Maria Eriksdotter Kankkonen, b. 1792, Karleby. Her line goes back to Grels Grelsson Kankkonen, b. ca 1570 in Karleby. I don't find any link between Påhl and Grels. The Kankkonen origins have been discussed before on this forum, as I recall. The Karleby Kankkonen family is written about in the book about the Lars Friis family. Grels Kankkonen was my 8th great grandfather, and Påhl Påhlsson was my 10th great grandfather through his gggrandaughter Brita Clemetsdotter Kankkonen, b. 1634, Evijärvi, who married Påhl Mickelsson Söderkultalahti.

June Pelo
14-09-08, 18:17
Christian,

My data is the same as your pdf. The Granö names were wives. Maybe Jaska has more info. about this.

Ayla
14-09-08, 18:21
This is great, many thanks Christian!

June Pelo
14-09-08, 23:04
Here's a chart you can use to figure out relationships if your genealogy program on your computer can't do it.

christina
15-09-08, 03:49
Thank you June.
Mickel Danielsson Kiisk is 3rd cousin with my gr gr gr gr gr grandmother. So that would make Mickel Danielsson Kiisk my 3rd cousin 7 times removed?

Hälsningar
Christina Nordback

Jaska Sarell
15-09-08, 17:05
She was born 3 Jan 1704. Her father was Jöran Perthållar. Mother unknown.
Christian

Provided that connection is correct, her parents were Jöran Ohlsson Perthållar and Beata (unknown patronymics).
ML 1710 lists Jöran Perthållar och hustru
ML 1705 lists Jöran Perthållar och hustru Beata
ML 1704 lists Jöran Ohlsson och hustru Beata
ML 1703 Erich Hanssons hemman: öde (uninhabited)

Where's the detailed birthday from?

:) Jaska

Jaska Sarell
15-09-08, 22:52
Here it is! Something strange in his paternal line as you can see. The Granö-name appears on several places and some patronymics (Rafvaldsson-Larsson) appears. If someone has the right answer to these questionmarks I'd appreciate it. And so do you, I suppose.
Christian

No idea about Granö, but SoB article about Stubb farmers lists måg Matts Larsson as farm head in 1676-1682.
Already in ML 1674 he is mentioned after Hans Grelsson.
Pre-1674 mantal records don't give other than farm owner's name and number of various adult people.

Anyway, I have researched Svarvar farm more thoroughly from mantal records. Rafvald (Ragnvald) Jönsson Svarvar (farm head in ML 1642-75) had at least sons Carl (head 1676-77), Erik (head 1678-96) and Johan (my ancestor). Incomplete Svarvar compilation here (http://www.sci.fi/~jaskas/gen/div/Svarvar.html).

:) Jaska

harrysme
16-09-08, 21:00
I have as an ancestor of my half brother´s Grels Grelsson Kankkonen, born ca 1668 in Rödsö Karleby, died 30. 11.1740 in Karleby. I think I have found two theories about his ancestors, either Lars Olofsson-Grels Larsson, or Grels Pålsson-Grels Grelsson-Olof Grelsson-Grels Olofsson.

Does somebody know bether ? My "studies" are based mainly to Talko(in this case June Pelo).

Harry

June Pelo
16-09-08, 21:40
I have Grels Grelsson, b. 1668, as son of Grels Larsson, son of Lars Olofsson, b. ca 1610, son of Olof Grelsson, b. ca1570. Researchers have various theories of the origins of Kankkonen. Here is one theory from a researcher in Finland:

Paffvuel (Paul) Andersson Cancu, Kankkonen, b after 1500 in Savolax in the village of Juva.

Paffuel Martensson was probably a cousin of his. The name of CANCU was used as early as the beginning of the 16th century.

Son: Paffvuel Paffvuelsson Canckku, b. abt 1530 at Juva (the parish of Rantasalmi), Savolax, d. Evijarvi 1597. Master 1564-99. Two possible forefathers, either Paffvuel Andersson or Paffuel Martensson. Genealogists have settled for the first-mentioned. He came to Evijarvi in 1564 and got at once into dispute with Marten Karvonen who had come to Evijärvi from Savolax before Paffuel . Both were fined. Paffuel seems to have had a "booze problem".

Sons:

1.Grels Paffuelsson Kankkonen, b. abt 1550. Grels could be the father of Grels Grelsson Kankkonen in Karleby, b. 1570. (At least that is my theory)

2. Clemet Paffuelsson Kankkonen, b. 1562

You can search Finlander's archives for previous discussions about Kankkonen.

granskare
17-09-08, 05:17
thanks for that chart!
chuck

harrysme
17-09-08, 08:37
Thank you very much June.

Harry

budjohnson
18-11-08, 20:17
No idea about Granö, but SoB article about Stubb farmers lists måg Matts Larsson as farm head in 1676-1682.
Already in ML 1674 he is mentioned after Hans Grelsson.
Pre-1674 mantal records don't give other than farm owner's name and number of various adult people.

Anyway, I have researched Svarvar farm more thoroughly from mantal records. Rafvald (Ragnvald) Jönsson Svarvar (farm head in ML 1642-75) had at least sons Carl (head 1676-77), Erik (head 1678-96) and Johan (my ancestor). Incomplete Svarvar compilation here (http://www.sci.fi/~jaskas/gen/div/Svarvar.html).

:) Jaska

Jaska
Could the Olof Ehrsson be the father of Matts Olofsson Svarvar born about 1714?
Bud

June Pelo
18-11-08, 21:26
Bud,

SoB#23, Tab. 4, mentions Margreta Olofsdotter Svarfvar, 1726-1802, daughter of farmer Olof Ehrsson Svarfvar and Lisa Pehrsdotter of Purmo. But it doesn't mention any other children of Olof. Olof had a son Johan, b. 1722, and that info. came from Jaska. :)

christina
19-11-08, 07:23
Bud.
I had this in my database.

Svarvar, Olof Eriksson.
Born 1685. Died 17.08.1729 in Överpurmo, Pedersöre.

Father Svarvar, Erik Ragnvaldsson. Died 1696.
Mother Carlsdotter, Brita. Born 1662.

Married to
Persdotter, Lisa. Born 1685. Died 12.02.1770.

Children
Svarvar, Matts Olofsson. Born 1714.
Died 01.09.1788 in Svarvar, Nederpurmo.
Married 1st to Mattsdotter, Vendela.
Born 1722. Died 10.10.1763 in Överpurmo, Pedersöre.
Married 2nd 08.06.1767 to Sigfrids, Christina Jakobsdotter.
Born 13.04.1740 . Died 11.09.1809 in Svarvar, Nederpurmo.

Svarvar, Johan Olofsson.
Born 24.06.1722 in Överpurmo, Pedersöre.
Died 20.08.1791 in Överesse, Esse.
Married 10.11.1748 to Lillkung, Anna Pehrsdotter.
Born 07.10.1721. Died 25.02.1805 in Överesse, Esse.

Svarvar, Margareta Olofsdotter.
Born 16.02.1726 in Överpurmo, Pedersöre. Died 10.10.1802 in Pedersöre.
Married 1st 1749 to Kittel, Matts Hansson.
Born 23.11.1726 in Katternö, Pedersöre. Died 24.04.1772 in Pedersöre.
Married 2nd 1779 to Christola, Elias Gustafsson.

Svarvar, Olof Olofsson.
Born 12.05.1728. Died 17.04.1805 in Kyrkoby, Pedersöre.
Married 1st 28.10.1764 to Johansdotter, Carin.
Died between 1764 and 1769.
Married 2nd 21.10.1769 in Pedersöre to Knifsund, Brita Danielsdotter.
Born (1742?) between 1738 and 1746. Died 23.11.1818 in Kyrkoby, Pedersöre.

Svarvar, Erik Olofsson.
Born 1730.
Married to Thomasdotter, Susanna.
Born 1740.

Hälsningar
Christina Nordback

Jaska Sarell
19-11-08, 11:25
I have similar results than Christina.
In addition an older sister Anna Olofsdotter who married 22.08.1731 Matts Simonsson. Three children can be found in HisKi, but no other details for them.

The answer to Bud's original query is yes.

:) Jaska

budjohnson
19-11-08, 16:37
Christina and Jaska

Thanks so much for all of that information Christina and Thanks to Jaska for the Svarfvar clue.

Bud:

budjohnson
25-11-08, 21:37
Another question
I have my Gr Gr Great Grandmother as Lisa Johansdotter Kiisk, born Jan. 5, 1772. I found her first husband Matts Andersson died in 1799 and I found her second marriage to Anders Johansson in HisKi on Sept. 14, 1800, but have no idea where Anders was from. The marriage was recorded as Esseveö, Storgård, Pedersore. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Bud

June Pelo
25-11-08, 22:31
Bud,

Here are deaths in Edsevö for men named Anders Johansson from Storgård, which is where he and his wife were from on the marriage record:

Age

Died Buried Village Farm Person Cause yrs m. w. d.

4.12.1807 10.12.1807 Essevö Storgård Anders Johansson u.p.k. 1
original - ALKUPKOMM: Johan Anderssons b.

5.8.1813 8.8.1813 Essevö Storgård Anders Johansson o.b. 6
original - ALKUPKOMM: Johan Anderssons b.

1.3.1816 17.3.1816 Essevö Storgård H.B. Anders Johansson slag 34
original - PIK: G.

26.5.1849 3.6.1849 Edsevö Storgård And. Joh:son Wästerlund slag 3 5
original - ALKUPKOMM: Sjöm. Joh. Larss. Wästerlunds b.

20.6.1857 28.6.1857 Edsevö Storgård B. Anders Johansson Svulnad 61 3

3.11.1898 Edsevö Storgård Bonden Anders Gustaf Johansson Lunginflammation 53
original - ALKUPKOMM: Gift

Assuming he continued to live at Storgård in Edsevö, he could be one of these men. If you know his age, you could choose whether he was the one who died in 1816 at age 34, or the one who died in 1857 at age 61. I don't think he could be the latter because he would have been only 4 years old in 1800.

budjohnson
25-11-08, 23:09
June

On the other hand if he is the one who died in 1816, he would only have been 18 when he married a woman who would have been 28 with many children already. I know it had to be after 1810 as their youngest son born there (Matts Andersson) was born July 12, 1810. What I do know is that their son moved to Stormans farm where he married first Brita Christina Abramsdotter. Their marriage was never recorded, but I was told that they were attending communion from 1832.

Bud

cdahlin
25-11-08, 23:16
Matts Andersson Kanckos, born 20 Sep 1765 at Kanckus, Nederesse
I have the following information about him:

****************

Måg på Kiisk. Bosatte sig vid Lampi, västra sidan av Kiisk sjön. Emellertid bytte Matts Andersson bort sitt 1/8 mtl av Kiisk den 24 jan. 1794 mot undfående av Storgård no 10 i Essevö som ägdes av Peter Gustavsson.

****************

Matts moved as a son-in-law to "Lampi" on the west side of the lake Kiisk. He sold his part of the farm and bought another farm from Peter Gustavsson in Essevö (Edsevö), Storgård.

His death date is 26 May 1799 at Storgård farm.

I found one possible birth for her second husband, Anders Johansson:

Född Döpt By Gård Far Mor Barn
30.11.1781 1.12.1781 Essewöö Storgård Johan Olofsson Caisa Larsdr. 24 Anders

Anders' father Johan Olofsson (1749-1804) was born on Kalvholm farm in Katternö. His mother Carin (Caisa) 1756 - ? was born on Storgård farm.

In this marriage (14 sep 1800) seems to be born three sons, Johan, Anders and Matts:

Född Döpt By Gård Far Mor Barn
5.4.1801 6.4.1801 Essevö Storgård Anders Johansson Lisa Joh.dr 30 Johan
8.9.1805 9.9.1805 Essevö Storgård Anders Johansson Lisa Joh.dr 34 Anders
12.7.1810 15.7.1810 Essevö Storgård Anders Johansson Lisa Joh.dr 38 Matts

So from June's death list it seems clear that Anders Johansson died in 1816:

1.3.1816 17.3.1816 Essevö Storgård H.B. Anders Johansson slag 34
original - PIK: G.

Christian

cdahlin
25-11-08, 23:35
I found that Brita Christina Abramsdotter's grandfather was Isaach Nagel, b. 1729!

Christian

June Pelo
26-11-08, 01:23
Bud,

I have several examples where an older woman has remarried to a younger man, so it's possible that was the case with your ggggmother. I noticed that I have a distant relationship to Anders Johansson Storgård through Kalvholm married to Rif - my mormors family.

Jaska Sarell
26-11-08, 17:54
While going to Helsinki anyway today (hello Hasse!), I spent some time in the National Archives in trying to solve this mystery.
Pedersöre communion books (CB) for 1803-1818 are quite useless, as they list only attendance dates for communion, but no birth or other details.

CB 1820-1826 lists Lisa Johansdr 1772 as a widow, thus Anders Johansson has died between 1810 and 1820.
Conclusion: he died 1.3.1816

CB 1792-1802 has some details. There's a son Anders Johansson b. 1777 mentioned under following names:
Anders Johansson d. 1791
hu Maria Andersdr b. 10/6 1731
änk. Beata b. 1748
[other names]
son Anders Johansson b. 1777

CB 1780-1791 lists:
Anders Johansson b. 1729 d. 1791
H. Maria Andersdotter b. 1732
måg Johan Andersson b. 1756
H. Beata Andersdr
[generally no children listed in this volume]

Johan Andersson and Beata Andersdr have children born in Pedersöre 1782, 1784 and 1787. I cannot find their marriage record anywhere nor any earlier children elsewhere, but it's possible they had son Anders born in 1777 somewhere.
Back to HisKi:
Johan Andersson died 30.1.1790 age 39 (i.e. born about 1750, above was 1756)

Beata Andersdr was married 9.6.1767 with Anders Johansson Storkåll, måg at Storgård (25.11.1729 - 23.2.1779). She was born 2.2.1749 and remarried after 14.3.1781 (his first wife died, marriage record missing) Johan Andersson Warg-Sudd.

There's a matching birth from his earlier marriage (3.12.1775):
12.10.1777 16.10.1777 Catternöö Sudd Joh. Andersson Anna Mattsdr. Anders

Probably the death age 34 on 1.3.1816 should be 39 (easy to misread handwritten 4 and 9)

[Christian: your suggestion doesn't fit: Anders b. 30.11.1781 d. 4.4.1782 and that couple had another Anders b. 26.6.1789]

It was tough writing this down - hopefully you can follow it somehow.

June, you should know about Warg!

:) Jaska

June Pelo
26-11-08, 22:51
Jaska,

I found the marriage record of Anders Johansson Storgård and Beata Andersdotter on 9 Jun 1767, Katernö Anders Johansson Storgård and Beata Andersdotter - in Längd över vigde i Pedersöre församling åren 1723-1908: Utg. Karlebynejdens bygde-och släktforskarer.f. 1982.

But I can't find Johan Andersson Warg-Sudd in my records. Tell me more about him - who were his parents? I went through all the marriages after 1781 but didn't find one for Beata Andersdotter to Johan Andersson Warg-Sudd. Beata certainly was a popular name and there are many of them listed, but none seem to match.

Jaska Sarell
27-11-08, 01:08
June,

I had a note for Beata Andersdr Storgård (had her with first husband and his Gunnila connection only) that she remarried Johan Andersson Warg-Sudd. Unfortunately the source was not entered (some old SoB I guess).
Anyway he is the one that first married Anna Mattsdr Sudd, whom you do have with Johan Andersson of unknown origin.

HisKi Pedersöre marriages:
3.12.1775 Terijärvi Drg. Johan Anderss. Bdr Anna Mattsdr Cathernö Sudd

Sorry that I didn't check Talko first. In any case maternal ancestry of Anders Johansson Storgård b. 12.10.1777 seems to be well researched.
I believe he is the Anders who married 14.9.1800 Lisa Johansdotter, widow after Matts Andersson.

:) Jaska

budjohnson
27-11-08, 02:43
Jaska Christian June

Thanks so very much to all, for all of your very hard work. All I had was the marriage of Anders Johansson and birth of my Gr Great Grandfather Matts Andersson Storgård / Stormåns / Storbacka. Not sure but I think that Lisa Johansdotter Kiisk died on Storbacka farm.

Bud

budjohnson
08-12-08, 22:59
June,

I had a note for Beata Andersdr Storgård (had her with first husband and his Gunnila connection only) that she remarried Johan Andersson Warg-Sudd. Unfortunately the source was not entered (some old SoB I guess).
Anyway he is the one that first married Anna Mattsdr Sudd, whom you do have with Johan Andersson of unknown origin.

HisKi Pedersöre marriages:
3.12.1775 Terijärvi Drg. Johan Anderss. Bdr Anna Mattsdr Cathernö Sudd

Sorry that I didn't check Talko first. In any case maternal ancestry of Anders Johansson Storgård b. 12.10.1777 seems to be well researched.
I believe he is the Anders who married 14.9.1800 Lisa Johansdotter, widow after Matts Andersson.

:) Jaska

Jaska

Are you saying that the Johan Andersson married on Dec. 3, 1775 is possibly the same Johan Andersson Warg born Oct. 23, 1747 on Hästbacka farm?

Bud

Jaska Sarell
09-12-08, 00:03
Jaska

Are you saying that the Johan Andersson married on Dec. 3, 1775 is possibly the same Johan Andersson Warg born Oct. 23, 1747 on Hästbacka farm?

Bud

Bud,

I'm not saying more than I wrote ;)
I hope to find where I picked that info from.
Anyway Talko (e.g. Cronoby database) says that Johan Andersson Warg, b. 23 Oct 1747, "Flyttat från socknen 1762, men vart." (moved out of parish, but where to).
That statement makes it possible that he actually moved from Terjärv to Pedersöre. But then his birth year is much distorted in later communion book (1756), but death age 39 in January 1790 has only three years error...

:) Jaska

June Pelo
09-12-08, 01:57
I have a Johan Andersson, b. 23 Oct 1747, Terjärv, to parents Anders Carlsson Hästbacka-Warg, 1718-1808, married 1743 to Margareta Johansdotter Dofnäs, 1717-1758. Johan was married 1775 to Anna Mattsdotter Sudd, 1755-1781 (died in childbirth). If Johan remarried to Beata Andersdotter Storgård, 1749-1814, they would have married after 1781 and before 1814. I checked all Pedersöre marriages and found only one couple with names that could match:

19 Sep 1789, Katternö Johan Andersson Lillkoll and Beata Andersdotter Strang. There are alot of Beata names in Pedersöre, but none with the Andersdotter patronymic. I tried to find a marriage in HisKi but had no luck. I looked in Pedersöre deaths for Johan and Beata, but none matched them. There was a Beata Andersdotter Storgård, who died 22 Dec 1811 in Edsevö, age 64. And a Beata Andersdotter Strang, died 30 May 1833, age 64.

SoB 7, Tab.16 has an Anders Johansson, b. 1777, but nothing about his parents. There is some info. in the Caino-Torp book.

budjohnson
09-12-08, 02:39
June
I think what Jaska was pointing out was that the HisKi entry's for three children of Johan Andersson and Beata Andersdotter Storgård in 1782, 1784 and 1787, indicate that they were married but the actual marriage was not recorded. It fits with the record of Johan's first wife died March 14, 1781, which left Johan with two young children to care for. He probably re-married right away after his first wife's death.

Bud

Jaska Sarell
09-12-08, 13:46
June, you did have that Warg after all !

I had copied (in 1997) these children of Beata Andersdr Storgård (2.2.1749-22.12.1811) and his first husband Anders Johansson Storkåll/Storgård (25.11.1739-23.2.1779):
Maria 16.4.1768-9.4.1825 (oo 1791 Anders Jonasson Tarvonen)
Johan 12.4.1779-25.5.1831 (oo 1792 Maria Andersdr Kanckos)
Anna 25.12.1773-29.1.1830 (oo 1796 Johan Andersson Storgård)
Lena 4.10.1777-16.6.1818 (unmarried)
also a mysterious Anders Andersson b. about 1777, but that ought to be Anders Johansson, the one we have been chasing after.

I had no records of Anna Mattsdotter Sudd (24.5.1755-14.3.1781) and Johan Andersson Warg, but they had these children (HisKi):
Margareta b. 9.10.1776 (probably name confusion either way = Gabriel d. 11.11.1776 - 6 weeks)
Anders b. 12.10.1777
Matts b. 19.4.1779 (probably stayed at Sudd, drowned in river, buried 21.4.1794)
Maria b. 13.3.1781 d. 20.8.1781

Anyway Beata Andersdotter Storgård and Johan Andersson had children Erik b. 1.6.1782, Margareta b. 9.4.1784 and Abraham b. 13.5.1787.
The marriage record is missing whoever Johan Andersson was, but someone else had had it that he was widower from Sudd.
The details fit otherwise except Johan Andersson's changing birth year.

:) Jaska

June Pelo
09-12-08, 17:06
Yes, I had Johan Andersson in my database, but not under Warg, so that's why I couldn't find him. What name did his children use from his marriage to Beata? Storgård?

Jaska Sarell
09-12-08, 19:50
June,

I don't have anything about them, but let's try to see what HisKi tells.

Erik b. 1.6.1782 d. 1.6.1782 (age: 1 hour)
Margareta b. 9.4.1784 d. 4.6.1786 (age: 2 months 3 weeks)
Abraham b. 13.5.1787 d. 23.5.1787 (age: 1 week 2 days)

All births and deaths recorded at Storgård farm in Edsevö village.

Margareta's age at death doesn't fit (2 years 1 month 3 weeks would be correct - error somewhere?), but she is said to have been Johan Andersson's child, and there's no other Margareta Johansdr at Storgård either.

:) Jaska

Minna C
28-08-09, 15:28
Am confused now. Matts Rafvalsson Svarvar - Larsson. Was Larsson not a patronym? Was it the name of a farm, or might he have been adopted?

Is there any new information on him???

Minna:confused:


Hi Ayla!

Here it is! Something strange in his paternal line as you can see. The Granö-name appears on several places and some patronymics (Rafvaldsson-Larsson) appears. If someone has the right answer to these questionmarks I'd appreciate it. And so do you, I suppose.

Christian