PDA

View Full Version : Svarvar



Steven
28-11-08, 20:53
Sorry to admit this, but I haven't visited finlander forum much lately - spending a lot of time researching swedish and norwegian maternal ancestors - but have turned my attention again to Finland. Was particularly interested in the Svarvar link in the Kiisk-Kanckos-Storgård thread. Rafvald (or Ragnvald or whatever he was really called) Jonsson was a direct ancestor of mine (ff ff ff ff ff) through Erik Rafvaldsson, Olof, Mats, Olof, Henrik Stenvatten, and so on. Anyway, from Jaska's attachment re: the Svarvar farm, it looks like Erik Rafvalsson had at least two brothers, Johan and Carl. It also looks like Johan had a son named Mats. I seemed to recall seeing something about a certain Lisa Mattsdotter Nord (b abt 1698) and married to Anders Pehrsson Kylanpaa on your homepage, Jaska. Wasn't her father a Mats Johansson Svarvar? You can see where I'm headed here....what do you think? Possible?

Steven

Jaska Sarell
28-11-08, 23:15
Hi Steven,

You are right! That's the reason I got interested in the Svarvar family in the first place about 1½ years ago, and collected that information. Ancestor chart in my home page really needs to be updated, it's now almost three years old :eek:
My new approximation for Lisa's birth year is 1700, the year Matts' wife Brita first appears in census (made usually early in the year). Births of nine younger siblings can be found in HisKi under Jakobstad between 1702 and 1712, where Matts Johansson Nord was a smith. Book Befolkningen i Jakobstad 1653-1714 by Leo Nyholm tells that he made his burgher oath on 10 Oct 1700. That's why the couple doesn't appear at Svarvar later. His origin from Svarvar is mentioned in the book. Daughter Lisa must have been born already at Svarvar, since she is not included in the book (understandable, since there was no other records available for small children in Jakobstad than the birth records). As both parents were shot by Russians during the Great Wrath, the children lived with relatives at Svarvar. I've spotted only marriages of Lisa and Maria.

:) Jaska

June Pelo
29-11-08, 01:50
More about Maria Mattsdotter Nord, b. 1704, can be found in SoB 27, Tab. 3. She was the first wife of Matts Persson Kylänpää- Kornjärvi. Tab. 3 has info. about Maria's daughter Lisa.

Jaska Sarell
29-11-08, 08:43
Hi June,

Indeed sisters Lisa and Maria got married with brothers Anders and Matts.
Siblings Anna, Anders and Matts died in Jakobstad, but the destiny of Johan, Erik, Hans and Brita is lost in the "black hole" of the Great Wrath.

:) Jaska

Steven
30-11-08, 00:59
Interesting indeed! And thanks for confirming my hunch. It does seem to have been a common practice for siblings from one family to marry siblings from another.

Also, does Jons Svarvar seem to be the earliest settler? Wasn't he listed on the first line as the head of the household in 1641 or 2? And no name for a wife - probably deceased. His birth would appear to have been somewhere 1580-1600.

Even for an old student of history familiar with the Great Northern War and the Great Wrath, it is a little bit surprising to run across so many individuals that were killed by the Russian forces. And age, gender, occupation - no difference!

Steven

June Pelo
30-11-08, 01:21
Yes, I have instances where the Russians kidnapped young children during the Great Wrath, and they rode through villages, killing anyone they could see, regardless of age or sex. There's a story in my mormor's family about the cossacks riding through their village, slashing everyone with their sabers.

Jaska Sarell
30-11-08, 19:52
Steven,

The mantal records, which started in 1634, first listed the farm owner's name only and the number of other people in different categories. They differ in different areas and in Pedersöre only those after 1674 list more names of the taxed household.
As to Jöns, I lost track in older years :confused: The records just had first names and patronymics, no farm name.
Now I tried to review the snapshots again and found out why I couldn't guess any meaningful patronymic for Jöns in unclear records.
In a record from 1624 listing livestock he is clearly named Jöns Swarfwar, while all the other names seemed to be in the usual patronymic form. Maybe that means that he really was svarvare (turner) by profession.
I have no older records available. The farm may be much older.

Attached a tiny cut from 1624 record, where Jöns Swarfwar's name appears close to the end of Överpurmo, like in later records.

:) Jaska

Steven
01-12-08, 02:16
Yes, Jaska, that seems to be very likely; that Jons was a "svarvare". The fact that different ways of recording information was practised is not too surprising - I've seen that before. Anyway, I guess I can add the name Jons Swarfwar to my farfar's line; and farmor too, since he would be connected to the Kylanpaa/Lassfolk line! Very cool!

Thanks,

Steven