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Vivian
23-06-09, 09:03
Hello,
I am trying to trace my husbands ancestors. I have been able to trace back to his greatgrandparents Tahvo Ristonp Ripatti 8/12/1828 to 16/2/1885 and Karolina Ristontr Tanttu 15/1/1850 to 19/1/1927. They lived in Hirvensalmi and had 5 children Vilhelmina 26/3/1874, Benjamin 20/10/1875, Rickard 18/11/1877, Ida Maria 14/12/1879 and William 12/11/1882.(Rickard died in 1881, all the other children grew up and had families)
I have checked the database of The Church of Jesus of the Latter-day saints and can find no record of our family though I can find a record for what I think is Karolina's second husband Otto(Antonp)Gynter and one son in law August Tanttu.There are lots of Ripattis but not our particular branch.
I know there are records held in the Church at Mantaharju, which is where I got this information from. I might add my husband is the grandson of Benjamin Ripatti.
Hoping someone can help Vivian

Karen Norwillo
23-06-09, 15:45
I found info on FFHA and Family Search LDS. Some discrepancies with dates as you gave. Carolina Tanttu 15 Dec 1849, christened 20 Dec 1849 in Hirvensalmi, Mikkeli. Father Christer Tanttu and mother Kaisa Karajamies. Ristontytär=Christersdotter.
Staphan Ripatti 9 Dec 1827, christened 22 Dec 1827 Hirvensalmi, Mikkeli. Father Christer Ripatti and mother Walborg Relander. Tahvo=Stephan or Staphan.
I found many Ripatti in Björnilä, Hirvensalmi in various years of Household rolls. Also Tanttu. If you look at the first HHR, you'll see the Christer and Walborg Ripatti family.
Hope this helps. You may find these records on Hiski. I haven't checked with the new dates.

Karen Norwillo
23-06-09, 19:51
Vivian,
There are many entries on Hiski for Ripatti, Tanttu, Relander and Käräjämies in Mikkeli, Hirvensalmi and Mäntyharju.
Found marriages for Staffan (yet another spelling) and Karolina in Hirvensalmi.
3.11.1872 Suonsalmi village, No 2 farm Bonde ungk Staffan Ripatti and Bnde:dr Karolina Tanttu, Suonsalmi, No 1
18.11
1827 Pöyry No1 Bds Christer Eliasson Ripatti and pig. Walborg Johns.dr Relander, Pöyry
23.3.1845 Suonsalmi No 1, Christer Tanttu and Kaisa Käräjämies 20...Lovisa
15.12.1849 same parents, Carolina.
There are many marriages among the four surnames.

Karen Norwillo
23-06-09, 21:09
Here's images in Pöyry and Suonsalmi for the family. I think the previous ones are not the right families. Probably relatives??? Many of the names are the same and it confused me until I realized it wasn't the correct village.

Vivian
24-06-09, 00:49
Dear Karen
Thanks for all the information. I don't think any of them are from our branch of the family. I looked up the microfish of the Hirvensalmi area put out by The Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-day saints and Benjamin the 2nd child was not on this list which is somewhat greater in size than their database and still could not find any information. There seemed to be thousands of Ripattis and Tanttus on these microfish but none of them matched our family. It may be that your information relates to cousins or whatever but none of them matched the childrens or grandchildrens names of Tahvo and Karolina.

However I will print them off and take them to the finnish expert in the family and she will translate them for me and make sure we have not missed anything.Thanks again for all this information, can you tell me where you get the census information from. Did you have to go to Finland to get it or is it available by writing to someone there. I have tried the Hiski database but either I am not accessing it properly or there is no information relevant to my search. Vivian

Karen Norwillo
24-06-09, 01:51
The information is available online at the FFHA. You just click on church records, the parishes will come up, select the parish and then the year of the church household census. You may also see Syntyneet=births, kuolleet=deaths, vihityt=marriage. Not all parishes have full records and most of the household rolls only go to 1880.
Most records only list children by name if they are over 14. Younger than that, only by sex, X number of girls, X number of boys. In 1880, the children would be too young to be named.
Are you positive of your dates? I didn't see anything in Hirvensalmi to match your dates.
The site is at http://www.digiarkisto.org/sshy/index_eng.htm

Vivian
24-06-09, 06:02
Dear Karen,
further to my note earlier today perhaps I should clarify the fact that I got all this information from a document supplied by the Church of Mantaharju.

It is headed Savonlinnan hiipakunta (Savolina dioscese)
No 346 the next word is illegible sivu 1116 Vina 1928

It was typed which was great as writing can be almost unreadable.

It had all sorts of information on it including names,wives, husbands and children even 2nd marriages. dates of births and deaths, in the case of young children dying and whether or not they lived. It also has information and dates when they moved away from Hirvensalmi. It is written by Todistetaan Hirvensamli 11/5/1928, Kirkoherra, which I know roughly translates as approved or proved by Hirvensamli and signed by a man of the church.
I have no reason to disbelieve this document, but yes I found all sorts of matches but apart from the 2 previously mentioned none of the dates matched. Frustratingly. I will follow up on the databases you mentioned and again thanks for all your advice especially on the substitution of names, which was something I was not expecting. The deeper you delve the murkier it gets obviously. Vivian

Vivian
24-06-09, 09:24
Dear Karen
after my last letter to you this afternoon I got to thinking, do you think I am being naive to put my faith in this document I got from the church.(This is the first time I have attempted anything like this) I have reexamined the information I have on Karolina Tanttu and the birth date of the LDS record is only 1 month apart from the record I have for Karolina. and the record I have for Tahvo is 1 year and 1 day out from the record for Staffan. I must admit at teh time I found this record I was wondering but decided my document was accurate. This is why I was so sure that they could not be the same people. But the date of the wedding coulld fit very well as their first child, according to this document was born in 1874. I am very grateful for all the information you have sent me and I will be in contact with the FFHA database as soon as possible. When I have time I will go down to our capital city and reexamine the microfiche with all this new information. Vivian

Karen Norwillo
24-06-09, 17:57
Vivian,
Like anything else, mistakes can happen in transcription or the transcriber's interpretation of what is written. Some of the old documents leave alot to be desired and are not always accurate. I paid for a search in Sweden and later found some of the info given me was wrong. Someone mistakenly interprted my great grandmother's first name as Clara when it was Anna. The parish minister's handwriting was bad and it did look like Clara. They also told me she had been in prison, when she hadn't. It was her husband, my maternal great-grandfather. So you must allow for "human error." I know how confusing it can be. Hang in there. It took me 10 years to find a great-aunt here in the US. We all have our "brick walls."
Karen

kivinen1
24-06-09, 18:46
I have typed copies of records from the church books in Finland.

I can tell you that they are often full of mistakes.

Best to see the actual book. It seems the typist didn't always understand which line to follow for the correct data for the person in the record.