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jim thoman
03-08-09, 12:52
Good day
I have Amanda Wilhelmina Euren b 12-22-1891 Sakyla

Daughter of Aksel (Axel) Kuustanpoika Euren
Wilhelmina Matintytar

My questions are these;
1. Why are the Euren children, such as Amanda, not Eurensdotter?
2. I have seen Kuu before other names. What does Kuustanpoika mean?
3. I cannot find the parents of Wilhelmina Matintytar. What does Matintytar
mean, and how can I find her parents?

I have the husband of Amanda as August Alexander (Gustafsson, Lindroos) Saarnijoki b 11-24-1886 Sakyla.

Son of Isak Erland Gustafsson
Alexandra Johansdotter

And the father of Isak:
Jakob Jakobsson

We know from family members that August changed his name to August Alexander Saarnijoki, from August Alexander Lindroos which means Isak changed his name from Gustafsson to Lindroos. And if I have the the family right Jakob must have changed his name from Jakobsson to Gustafsson.

1. If this is true, what is the reason for all these name changes?
2. Is this common in other families? Some one in the family mentioned August changed his name in defiance of Swedish rule.
3. Would Isak have also done that, Gustafsson to Lindroos?

I know little of Finnish society. Could someone help me? It seem so easy for other families with 'sson' & 'sdotter'.

jim thoman
Hamburg, Nwe York, USA

Denise
03-08-09, 15:55
Hi Jim,
Let me see if I can answer your questions. Have you looked on Hiski for your Euren family? http://hiski.genealogia.fi/hiski?en This is what I have found:

Säkylä Parish:
BIRTH CHRISTENED VILLAGE FARM FATHER MOTHER CHILDS NAME
30.7.1884 1.8.1884 Iso-Säkylä Ala-Kleemola drengen Axel Gustaf Eurén trolofvade brud Wilhelmina Mattsd:r Yli-Kleemola 19 Amanda Wilhelmina

*11.11.1886 11.11.1886 Iso-Säkylä arb. karlen Axel Gustaf Eurén h:u Wilhelmina Mattsd:r 21 Frans Viktor


*20.7.1889 21.7.1889 Iso-Säkylä Iso-Wimmala kapellansbol drengen Axel Eurén h:u Wilhelmina Mattsd:r 24 Johannes Emil


*22.12.1891 22.12.1891 Isosäkylä Pappila renkivouti Aksel Kustaanpoika Eurén v:o Wilhelmina Matintytär 26 Amanda Wilhelmina

*1.5.1894 2.5.1894 Isosäkylä Pappila arentimies Aksel Kustaanpoika Eurén v:o Wilhelmina Matintytär 29 Selma Maria

*12.2.1896 13.2.1896 Isosäkylä Pappila arentimies Aksel Kustaanpoika Eurén v:o Vilhelmina Matintytär 31 Vilho Oskar

*1.1.1899 3.1.1899 Isosäkylä Pappila vuokraaja Aksel Kustaanpoika Eurén v:o Vilhelmiina 26 Selma Vilhelmiina

*8.10.1901 9.10.1901 Isosäkylä Pappila ent. vuokr. Aksel Kustaanpoika Eurén v:o Miina 29 Helmi Maria

The parish name is Säkylä. You have to include the little dots above the a's. To do this hold the "alt" button on your keyboard and type 0228 on the calculator side of the keyboard and you will be able to type the ä
If you look at the first child born above, (Amanda Wilhelmina born 30.7.1884 (July 30, 1884) and christened 1.8.1884 (August 1, 1884) you will find that Wilhelmina Mattsdr. (Matintytär) last name is Yli-Kleemola. Matts would be her father's first name. When entering birth and death dates you put in the numbers in this order: day,month,year. as I showed you above. In the U.S. we are used to writing the dates starting with the month, day, year but it is not so in Finland.
The numbers next to the mother's name is her age at giving birth to each child.
The children are listed by the father's patronymic name, such as Aksel's name. Aksel Kuustanpoikä Euren. You then know his father's first name was Kuusta: poikä is for a male name and tytär is for a female name. So Kuustanpoikä is Kustaa's son.
Yli-Kleemola is the farm name Wilhelmina Matintytär Yli-Kleemola lived on when she married. You will find that as the families moved they will use the farm name as their last name, and with that their surnames change. Let me look at the rest of your post and see if there is anything else I can add to your questions. I have been doing my Finnish ancestry for over 10 years, and I still do not know all the answers. You will learn by researching, and eventually you will get the hang of it. And ask questions like you did. There is no such thing as a stupid question; that is how I learned! :D

Best Regards,
Denise

P.S. Sorry about all those pink faces. They pop up when there is a letter and a colon next to each other!

edit: removed the smilies/Hasse

Denise
03-08-09, 16:13
Hi Jim,
Here is a link on Säkylä.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A4kyl%C3%A4

and on Hiski you will find the parish of Säkylä in region 4 (Satakunta) on the map of Finland. Just press on the map and the parishes in that region will come up.
http://hiski.genealogia.fi/hiski/1tpar0?en+A04

Denise :)

Denise
03-08-09, 16:34
Hi Jim,
Here is the marriage of Aksel and Wilhelmina. They were married 13.9.1884 (September 13, 1884)

Denise :)

Säkylä - married

Announc. Married Village Farm Man Wife Village Farm
*2.8.1884 13.9.1884 Iso-Säkylä Ala-Kleemola drengen, ungem. Axel Gustafsson Eurén tjenande unga pig. Wilhelmina Mattsd:r Iso-Säkylä Yli-Kleemola

Denise
03-08-09, 17:02
Hi Jim,
I have found two possible Wilhelmina's that may be the one you are searching for a birth of in Säkylä.

Best Regards,
Denise

Säkylä - christened

* Years 1865 - 1865
* Father's patronymic: MAT => Mats
* Child's first name: WILHELMINA => Vilhelmiina

Born Christened Village Farm Father Mother Child
*14.2.1865 14.2.1865 Iso Säkylä torp. Matts Mattsson Keskimäki h:u Fredrika Mattsd:r 35 Wilhelmina
*12.6.1865 13.6.1865 Iso Säkylä Nikkari kyrkovärden Matts Mattsson Nikkari h:u Lovisa Henriksd:r 27 Wilhelmina

Karen Norwillo
03-08-09, 20:59
Jim,
In Finnish, poika is son, tytär is daughter, same as sson and dotter in Swedish. Kuusta is the Finnish of Gustaf. As Denise said, if the family moved around, you could have children with different "last names" in the same family. They weren't really surnames but farm names. The most important name needed in researching is the father's first name, the patronymic. When people emigrated, they often used their patronymic name as surname, especially if they had a very hard to pronounce name or shortened it or took the Engish meaning of their Finnish name. Hence the abundance of Johnson, Ericson etc.
Welcome to the wonderful world of genealogy.
Karen

Hasse
04-08-09, 09:32
...Sorry about all those pink faces. They pop up when there is a letter and a colon next to each other!

A tip:

Before you post your message select the "Disable smiles in text" under the message box if you have a lot of "risk for accidental smilies" in the text.

Hasse

:)

jim thoman
04-08-09, 15:08
Jim,
In Finnish, poika is son, tytär is daughter, same as sson and dotter in Swedish. Kuusta is the Finnish of Gustaf. As Denise said, if the family moved around, you could have children with different "last names" in the same family. They weren't really surnames but farm names. The most important name needed in researching is the father's first name, the patronymic. When people emigrated, they often used their patronymic name as surname, especially if they had a very hard to pronounce name or shortened it or took the Engish meaning of their Finnish name. Hence the abundance of Johnson, Ericson etc.
Welcome to the wonderful world of genealogy.
Karen

Karen & Denice
I am not sure how to answer the forum responses without starting a new link, but I want to thank both of you for all this wonderful data/information. I printed it out and will take my time going through it.

One thing that was clear to me is the HisKi site has both Finnish and Swedish in it. And that Euren was/is a farm.

In any case I am very glad that both of you could take the time to help me understand what it is I am looking at!! I have been doing genealogy in the States for some 35 years, and know how to proceed nicely, but this Finnish data confused me. The nice thing is that I had a Parish to work with, something I do not have for my Polish branch. Having that parish really makes the difference!

Thanks again and please let me know you both got this message
jim thoman

Karen Norwillo
05-08-09, 19:35
Jim,
Did your Euren family emigrate? We had a family back home in Crystal Falls, MI named Uren. I thought maybe the spelling change may have happened in this country.
Karen

jim thoman
06-08-09, 15:14
Karen
As far as I know:
August Alexander (Gustafsson) Saarnijoki and I presume his wife's brother Juho Euren came over 1909 and ended up settling in Litchfield, Ct. Once they got settled, and August raised some money, he sent for or went back to Finland, for his future wife, Amanda Wilhelmina Euren. Their first child Helen was born 1914 Litchfield, Ct.

There were family notes that another brother, Frans (Franz) Euren also came over, but I have not been able to find him here under Euren. Was your Uren, Frans b abt 1886?

That is all I know for certain. If you list the Urens' and birthyears perhaps they might match Eurens' I know of.

Would be interesting to know if other came over.

jim

June Pelo
06-08-09, 16:49
An interesting bit of info: In Finland there is a man's name Jöran which sounds like Eurén when pronounced.

Karen Norwillo
06-08-09, 20:30
Unfortunately, the Uren's in MI were English. I checked and they were from England.

Tapio Rautio
07-08-09, 08:14
Hello You all!

It has been nice reading this warm, positive and friendly discussion! Jim, i believe You are going to
get far back in ancestry here in Finland, as time goes by. However, hiski gets problematic if one
doesn´t have the possibility to compare the data from the original church-records. This may happen
soon in the future, on the behalf of; the Finland´s Family History Association:
http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/index_eng.htm

A special bonus in the hiskidata from Säkylä, is the the ages of the married:

Säkylä - married
Man's first name: ISA => Iisac, Israel
Wife's first name: ALE => Aleksandra, Aliina
Wife's patronymic: JOH => Johans, Johannas

Announc. Married Village Farm Man Wife Village Farm

23.10.1886 30.12.1886 Iso-Säkylä Anttila drengen, ungem. Isak Erland Gustafsson tjenande unga pig. Alexandra Johansd:r Iso-Säkylä Anttila

original - ALKUPKOMM: å prestgården
original - MIKÄ: 1862 age of the male
original - VIKÄ: 1866 age of the female

Isak born 1862, and Alexandra born 1866. On Alexandra, hiski doesn´t give any exact answer from Säkylä.


Kind regards

Tapio Rautio
Jakobstad
Finland

jim thoman
08-08-09, 14:02
Tapio
Thanks for providing that information. Will the birthyears just show or will I have to do something further to see the years?

One bit of information that shows on the Marriage Certificates here in the USA are the parents names. Was/is that also data that is required in Finland?
That would surely make it easier to trace families back.

Also wonder what this means before the female name 'tjenande unga pig' ?
I have seen it many times.

And finally, all the census' for the USA are online. The ones before 1850 just show the male or female head of household, and age groups of those in the household. The 1850 and later census, shows the entire family, names and ages, and some show the years the husband and wife have been married. Is this something that Finland is going to add?

Thank-you
jim thoman

Karen Norwillo
08-08-09, 15:37
Jim,
You will find in the Rippikirja from some years, in some areas, the date of marriage shows. I found this most often in the non-Swedish speaking areas. It sometimes will also have the date of death if a person died between that year and the previous roll. They are not consistant.

June Pelo
08-08-09, 16:06
I think this refers to a young maid/girl servant: 'tjenande unga pig'

tjän- = serve
unga = young
pig(a) = maid

Tapio Rautio
08-08-09, 17:51
Good evening Jim! (here it is)

The hiski database of marriages in Säkylä gives
the birthyear of m,ikä and v,ikä from the year
1879 automaticly. Ikä means age, mikä-miehen; mans age,
vikä-vaimon, wifes age.

Kind regards

Tapio

Tapio Rautio
08-08-09, 17:56
And..

June has the correct translation.

Hälsningar

Tapio

jim thoman
15-08-09, 13:21
I think this refers to a young maid/girl servant: 'tjenande unga pig'

tjän- = serve
unga = young
pig(a) = maid


Good evening Jim! (here it is)

The hiski database of marriages in Säkylä gives
the birthyear of m,ikä and v,ikä from the year
1879 automaticly. Ikä means age, mikä-miehen; mans age,
vikä-vaimon, wifes age.

Kind regards

Tapio

Tapio
Wondering if you could help me with some more terms.
I have noticed in Sakyla, the terms Iso-Sakyla, Lill-Sakyla, Vaha-Sakyla, Waha-Sakyla, Stor-Sakyla, Etc keep coming up. I realize that Sakyla is the parish, but what do the other terms mean?

There are more; Oulu, Heinjoki, Pyhajoki. What does 'joki' mean?

Finally, how would us English speaking persons pronounce Sakyla and Satakunta or Satakunda? Or how would Finnish people pronounce those words.

Thank-you for your time, and I appreciate any help.
jim thoman

Tapio Rautio
15-08-09, 14:43
Hello!

I´ll give it a try, it may look funny in writing...

Iso = big
Stor= swedish for big
Lill=swedish for small
(W)Vähä=less or small

All names of different houses.

Joki=river

Säkylä= the letter ä sounds like the letter a in the word thanks.

Satakunta= the letter a sounds like the a:s in Alabama.

Tapio

kivinen1
15-08-09, 23:55
Satakunta= the letter a sounds like the a:s in Alabama.


The letter a sounds like the second and fourth a in Alabama to a northern USA English speaker.

Kerstin
16-08-09, 13:07
And Oulu is spelled Uleåborg in Swedish an is a town in the north of Österbotten

Kerstin

jim thoman
16-08-09, 13:18
Tapio, Ilmari

Thanks for the information.

Why then would people write Small or Big Sakyla? Were there two Sakyla's?

So when we see 'joki' the house was on/near a river/stream?

Jim

Tapio Rautio
16-08-09, 13:55
http://maps.google.fi/maps?hl=fi&q=s%C3%A4kyl%C3%A4&um=1&ie=UTF-8&split=0&gl=fi&ei=gfKHSpXsBY2ysgb8n9jpBw&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1


Copy/paste the whole line.

I would believe that those were different houses.

Your guess about Joki is sometimes correct.


All the best

Tapio

June Pelo
16-08-09, 19:02
I think there probably was the main village of Säkylä - and then a small group of villagers settled nearby and their place was referred to as Vähä-Säkylä (Little Säkylä), while the larger village was referred to as Stor-Säkylä. I know of several other instances like this. You could probably compare it to urban sprawl in today's world.

I think '-järvi' following a word would indicate it's on a lake; just as '-joki' indicates a river.