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seele01
27-08-09, 20:46
Does anyone know which sources for the Asutuksen Yleisluettelo used what color? I mean, what color means what? Or does anyone know of a site that explains the history and sources and other general information about the Asutuksen Yleisluettelo?

Genealogically, how reliable is using the Asutuksen Yleisluettelo as a primary source? In Porvoo, where I am primarily researching, almost all records before 1740 were destroyed by fire, so the Asutuksen Yleisluettelo is my only real source of information to go back any farther, genealogically. Has anyone else ran into this problem?

Thanks everyone.

Rob

harrysme
03-09-09, 17:03
The answer to your question follows in Finnish, I shall try to translate, but I don´t know if I can find right terms:

Highest are records about farm taxes in blue untill 1634, after that in brown.

Next ar records of chuch´s taxes in red

Then about person taxes in blue (from 1634)

Last green about farms, that were not able to pay taxes and violet of special records.


SAY is a copy of several records and there are propably mistakes now and then, especially before 1634. I have used it as a source, but a serious reseach shoud check from original sources.

Harry


http://www.genealogia.fi/hakem/say1s.htm

Eri veroluetteloihin sisältyvät tiedot esitetään asutuksen yleisluetteloissa yleensä samassa järjestyksessä. Ylimpänä ovat maakirjan tiedot, sitten seuraavat ennen 1630-luvun puoliväliä kymmenysluetteloista ja muista kirkollista alkuperää olevista veronkantoluetteloista saadut tiedot; v:sta 1634 lähtien ovat maakirjan tietojen alapuolella henkikirjoista peräisin olevat tiedot. Alimpana ovat erilaisista tilapäisten verojen luetteloista sekä autioluetteloista ja sotaväkeä koskevista luetteloista saatu tietoaines. Koska verotusolot maan eri puolella varsinkin vanhimpina aikoina jossain määrin poikkesivat toisistaan, ei edellä esitetty sijaintijärjestys aina esiinny yleisluetteloissa. Eri veroluetteloryhmistä otetut tiedot on asutusluetteloihin merkitty erilaisin värein. Maakirjojen ja lampuotiluetteloiden tiedot on v:tta 1635 edeltävältä ajalta merkitty sinisellä musteella, mutta mainittua vuotta myöhemmät maakirjatiedot on kirjoitettu ruskealla musteella, sininen väri taas on varattu henkikirjatiedoille. Tiedot kymmenysluetteloista on merkitty punaisella värillä, jota niin ikään 1500-luvun ja 1600-luvun alun osalta yleisesti on käytetty tehtäessä merkinnät ruokalisäluetteloista. Merkinnät autioluetteloista on tehty vihreällä värillä ja samaa väriä on käytetty merkittäessä tietoja eräistä Varsinais-Suomea koskevista säteriluetteloista. Violettia väriä on tavallisesti käytetty eräistä erikoisluetteloista saatuihin tietoihin. Värien käytössä ei kuitenkaan eri pitäjien osalta ole ollut mahdollista saavuttaa täyttä yhtenäisyyttä. Pitäjien ensimmäisissä yleisluetteloniteissä sekä niissä niteissä, joissa värien käytössä on tapahtunut muutoksia, on tavallisesti merkinnät siitä, miten värejä on käytetty.

seele01
03-09-09, 23:05
Thank you very much, Harry, for the translation and information! I really appreciate it.

You are correct about the possibility of errors in the SAY...which brings me to another question. The SAY interests me because of the parish I am researching, Porvoo. A fire destroyed most records in Porvoo in 1760, yet the SAY goes back to 1540s for Porvoo. Since the original records that were later compiled into Porvoo's SAY must have survived the fire, then where are those records today? Are they available for genealogists?

Anyway, thank you again for the link and the translation and information. Have a great day!

Jaska Sarell
04-09-09, 08:43
Those original records are also microfilmed.
Little by little they are coming to the FFHA (SSHY) site as well, but they are available to members only.

:) Jaska

harrysme
04-09-09, 17:53
I understood that the church´s records were burned already 1708. Hiski seems to have records from 1742 and SSHY communion books from 1749.

SAY is copied from taxation records.

Harry

seele01
18-09-09, 21:28
Sorry for the late reply...im a student and I am really busy right now! I appreciate the responses and help.

Jaska, I am suprised that the FFHA website has members-only content. I thought everything was available to anyone, and members got access to some type of search database. Is there a way to tell what members are given access to that non-members do not have access to? Please don't think I am trying to be a tightwad...I totally will donate to the FFHA to become a member and gain access to their members-only content, but only if the FFHA has members-only content that I need.

Harry, yeah there was a fire in 1760 in Porvoo that destroyed all the older documents. I know there were more fires farther back in Porvoo, too (like the 1708 fire you mentioned). I always figured the tax records the SAY derived from came from records not destroyed in the fires...maybe they were held somewhere in the county, and not specifically in Porvoo? But yeah, I am just as confused as you are, here...exactly what the SAY for Porvoo was derived from, and when, is still a mystery for me.

Anyway, thanks for the help, you two. I appreciate it!

Rob

Lasse1951
20-09-09, 20:40
Sorry for the late reply...im a student and I am really busy right now! I appreciate the responses and help.

Jaska, I am suprised that the FFHA website has members-only content. I thought everything was available to anyone, and members got access to some type of search database. Is there a way to tell what members are given access to that non-members do not have access to? Please don't think I am trying to be a tightwad...I totally will donate to the FFHA to become a member and gain access to their members-only content, but only if the FFHA has members-only content that I need.

Harry, yeah there was a fire in 1760 in Porvoo that destroyed all the older documents. I know there were more fires farther back in Porvoo, too (like the 1708 fire you mentioned). I always figured the tax records the SAY derived from came from records not destroyed in the fires...maybe they were held somewhere in the county, and not specifically in Porvoo? But yeah, I am just as confused as you are, here...exactly what the SAY for Porvoo was derived from, and when, is still a mystery for me.

Anyway, thanks for the help, you two. I appreciate it!

Rob

Rob,
As it's possible I that gave you info on the fire in 1760, as Harry says there has been other fires too, as the one in 1708, where on of my grandfaters died on the bridge into Porvoo fighting the russians.
There has also been other fires before that, don't remember years just now, but I recall that also the Danes have burned Porvoo at some time earlier.
Sorry I didn't mentioned those earlier fires.

Lasse Holm

seele01
03-10-09, 23:22
Thanks for the reply, Lasse,

Yeah, it was you who gave me the historical information on the 1760 fire in Porvoo. You had also mentioned earlier fires, but you didn't give the dates. It makes sense that Porvoo, a town that has been around since at least the 1300s, only has records up till the 1700s because of those multiple fires. If it were not for the fires, I bet Porvoo's records would go back to the late 1500s.

Anyway, you dont have to appologise for not mentioning the dates of the earier fires. After checking all around the internet, the only documented fire in Porvoo mentioned in English is the 1760 fire. Its actually mentioned on Porvoo city's website.

I need to do what you said, and buy one of those Swedish written Porvoo History books. It will take a while to translate, but I bet I will get a much better idea of the history of the place my grandfather was born and raised in (along with his entire family lineage). Plus, translating it would help me significantly with my knowledge of the Swedish Language.

Thanks as always,

Rob

Lasse1951
04-10-09, 01:15
Hi Rob,

I'll guess that you will have much to do with your ancestors from Porvoo (Borgå) depending on what they were doing, where they farmers or mechandants. I have a feeling that most of the farmers were locals, and hard to follow via documents, then again I also feel that most of the merchandants came from elsewere, either from Sweden, or over Balticum into Finland, and there is a chance that their trace could be found despite all thse fires.
Regarding my family (Holm) I have traces / indicies on how they may have seatled into Finland, but nothing that I can say is the real fact yet.

On many ancestor lines I can go much futher back than on my Holms. For example on one branch I can easily go back to Italy, this line I was a bit wacky on until a history professor from Italy called me and verified the ancestors that I had been using on my charts.
I still do know that those historical persons in my charts only depends on what we today know about those persons, and I know that the history was written by those in power, and may have been altered to fit their needs.

So my message is that don't take anything for granted, we simply don't know the absolute truth yet.

Lasse Holm