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tuulakki
04-10-09, 22:06
I am interested in knowing more about Kesälä/Kesala sisters' families abroad. Signe Maria Kesala, born in Mynamaki, near Turku/Finland, on 28 Apr 1893. It is known that she was married in the USA and had at least daughter(s).

Her sister Olga Mathilda, born on 13 Jan 1882 probably moved to the USA, too. The last church records known are from the year 1931, when she is said to have been registered to Helsinki (northern, Finnish parish), but the village people remember well stories of her family in the USA (their sister remained in their native village).

It is probable, that they have emigrated as follows: Olga perhaps about in 1921 and Signe about in 1915. During those years mentioned they were given some kind of testimony for the emigration, which does not necessarily mean, that they emigrated exactly during those years.

Does anyone know anything about these Kesala siblings? Either in the United Kingdom or in the USA.

If you know persons with same birthdays, please, let me know. Thank you very much!

kivinen1
05-10-09, 00:38
From the Institute of Migration, here is a passenger record that fits for Signe:

Last name Kesälä
First names Signe
Age or age group 40
Port of departure Helsinki
Place of destination New York
State of destination NY
Country of destination USA
Price of ticket USD 118
Ship from Finland Arcturus
Date of departure from Finland 29.05.1934
Ship from England Manhattan
Date of departure from England 07.06.1934
Ocean Line United States
Port of departure in England Southampton
List and page 134/9

Denise
05-10-09, 22:55
Hi,
Here is Signe Kesälä's New York passenger record.

Best Regards,
Denise

tuulakki
07-10-09, 12:19
Thank you for both answers!

To Denise: I can now read that Signe was a waitress, single and could write and read English. If her last permanent residence is mentioned to be Mountain Lake, does it mean, that she actually had moved already a few years earlier or that M.L. will be her new residence? Signe had been given some kind of testimony for emigration already in 1915.

I wonder what the second attachment means, as the text is not very clear. Signe's sister was Mrs. (Sanni < Aleksandra) Ravea and there is a lady called S. Ravea, who went to Mountain Lake to see her sister. Her Finnish address (Nurmijärvi?) is not the one where she lived at that time, but could you draw a conclusion, that it was Signe's sister? Maybe this is just a coincidence after all?

A person in Mountain Lake is mentioned: G.D. Kirkham. As we have been told that Signe had a family in the U.S.A. - is this perhaps her husband or just the employer?

If Signe came to the USA in 1934 for the first time, she was 40-41 years old, which makes it a little unrealistic that she would have got children after that - not impossible, however.

Denise
07-10-09, 15:10
Hello,
I enlarged the images from her N.Y. passenger record which was a total of 2 pages. I'll see if they will attach in this post, but they may be too large. One suggestion would be to right click on the images I sent you in the previous post and save them to your desktop, and from there you would be able to enlarge them with another program. It appears that Signe had been living in the USA since 1925, then 16 Jan. 1934 she applied for a passport from Washington D.C. to visit Finland on 4 Mar. 1934. She returned to the USA (on this N.Y. Passenger record I had posted) on 7 Jun 1934 on the ship Southampton. On that passenger record she stated that her nearest living relative in the country she had been born in was Mrs. S. Ravea (sister) who then lived in Hansjärvi? or Hausjärvi?, Savela, Finland. I have been trying to find someone in the census records with the initials G.D. Kirkham in Blue Mountain Lake, New York and will keep looking. I also found a death record for Signe. She died in Finland, 24 Dec. 1963 so she must have returned to Finland again at a later date, which was June 25, 1963. Here is a link to Blue Mountain Lake, New York where she was residing with G.D. Kirkham. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Mountain_Lake,_New_York

I'll see what else I can find.
Best Regards,
Denise

Denise
07-10-09, 15:27
Here is a 1930 Census for a George D. Kirkham in New York, so Signe may have been employed by him as there are others who are listed as servants in his household.

Best Regards,
Denise

Denise
07-10-09, 15:56
This may be your Olga Kesälä...from Estonia. Just thought I would post this anyway, but the last name is spelled wrong if it is her.

Denise :)

tuulakki
08-10-09, 21:37
This may be your Olga Kesälä...from Estonia. Just thought I would post this anyway, but the last name is spelled wrong if it is her. Denise :)

Thank you again for all your information. I have also answered to you by a private message containing some private details.

It is hardly the same Olga from Estonia who was born in Finland. It is funny, however, that Olga Keskula from Estonia was almost as old as the Finnish Olga. In 1950 it was certainly not very common that a 70 yrs old citizen from Estonia or Finland travelled to Estonia. Spelling mistakes seem to be quite common, however! E.g. Signe's sister never lived in a place called Hausjärvi or Savela, her home village does not even sound like it.

Best regards:)
Tuulakki

Denise
09-10-09, 00:07
Tuulakki, I beg to differ...there is such a place as Hausjärvi and Savela farm. And, I do not think it would be odd for an older person to travel. My great grandmother at 93 years of age went to Finland to visit, on her own, from America. Take a look at line #4 on the second passenger record I posted above for S. Ravea...
Best Regards,
Denise

Hausjärvi - christened

* Birth place - village: SAVELA => search text was not found in the database
* Birth place - farm: SAVELA => Savela

Born Christened Village Farm Father Mother Child
*27.9.1844 29.9.1844 Hikiä Savela Son. Anders Abrahamss. Maria Helena Erics d:r 32 år Magdalena
*10.2.1849 14.2.1849 Hikiä Savela Bd.s. Anders Abrahamss. Magdalena Eriks d:r 36 år Erland
*21.10.1850 27.10.1850 Hikiä Savela Bd.s. Henr. Abrahamss. Carolina Gust. d:r 19 år Elsa Elina

Denise
09-10-09, 03:07
Tuulakki,
If S. Ravea (Signe's sister) never lived in Hausjärvi, Savela as is stated on page 2 of Signe Kesälä's passenger record, then I don't suppose there is any point in emailing you the images as you requested in your private message. Therefore it also would be the incorrect Signe on the passenger record.
Regards,
Denise

tuulakki
09-10-09, 23:31
Denise,

Signe Maria Kesälä's Report of Death is correct and so is her name on the List of Manifest of Alien Passengers. Her place of birth and age go together with my knowledge of her origin. As for her Petition No. 445 525 I also firmly believe that she is the right Signe Maria Kesälä, as there was only one (large) family with this name in Mynämäki and its surroundings.

There is thus no doubt about details of Signe, but something has gone wrong with the details of Mrs. Ravea. Hausjärvi and Savela do exist, of course, but Mrs. S. Ravea never lived there. You can check the residence of this family through centuries by Hiski: http://hiski.genealogia.fi/hiski?en , with the family name Ravea, which only appears in Mynämäki and Mietoinen. The latter one is part of Mynämäki - it was only for a certain period an independent municipal. In http://sukutilat.sarka.fi/ the names of Finnish farms can also be checked (Maatilakirja = collection of Finnish farms; publisched in the 1960'ies). Unfortunately it is only in Finnish. Both family names are fairly rare and the lists of results are short.

I appreciate very much your help and still believe, that principally all information about Signe on the documents is correct! Olga will remain a mystery. I must start looking for new sources of information here in Finland - family members etc.

Best regards
Tuulakki

kivinen1
10-10-09, 06:23
I see absolutely zero people in HisKi with the name Ravea.

tuulakki
10-10-09, 09:00
I see absolutely zero people in HisKi with the name Ravea.

Sorry, I expressed the case inaccurately! As the family names in this area (regions of south-western Finland) were not regularly in use in the 19th century, you have to use the box "village name":

Mynämäki - Virmo - christened
* Birth place - village: RAVEA => Rawea, Ravea by
Born Christened Village Farm Father Mother Child
*1666 7.8.1666 Rawea Mats Mats
*1669 4.7.1669 Rawea Mats Jacob
*1673 15.7.1673 Rawea Matth: Daniel
*1687 3.8.1687 Rawea Jören Lijsa
etc.

http://sukutilat.sarka.fi/ still shows Signe's sister, when you write Ravea in "omistajan sukunimi" (family name of the owner). I do not know since when that family name has been in use.

Denise
10-10-09, 22:43
Tuulakki,
Is it possible to find out if Juho Hartzell and spouse Märtta (os. Lammervo) from Savela farm in Hausjärvi had a son named Edward Emil Hartzell born 1 Nov 1880, possibly Helsingfors, Finland? I'm working on a hunch about something. There had to have been a reason Signe Kesälä put her sister's name, S. Ravea with that farm name Savela in Hausjärvi.

Thanks,
Denise

Denise
11-10-09, 06:31
Sorry about not finishing my last post; was on the way out the door to a wedding and reception, when I wrote it. I'm checking Hiski right now for Edvard as I see that the rippikirja is until 1881 for Helsinki.

Denise

tuulakki
11-10-09, 13:31
Dear Denise, you are right!

I have found more information about circumstances during those few years around 1934 and - she and her family really moved to Hausjärvi in 1933. She was widowed in 1935 and came back to this region, not later than in 1937. Her case is solved now. Thank you for "reminding" me how important all details can be even if things look very clear.

I still hope that some one could find any piece of written information about Olga, who has left Finland for either the USA or England!

Best regards
Tuulakki

Denise
11-10-09, 15:31
Tuulakki,
I started seaching for the name Hartzell, when you said S. Ravea never lived in Hausjärvi, and started working on the suspicion that maybe Signe had a man she was in love with from Savela farm. I found many passenger records of an Edward Hartzell who was an engineer on a ship working for Standard Oil Company who travelled the world and came into the port of New York many times. I was trying to determine whether he was the son of Juho and Märtta Hartzell from Savela farm... therefore a reason for Signe putting her sister's name with the Hausjarvi Savela address. Here is an example of what I found on this Edward Hartzell. I'm glad that mystery is solved.

Best Regards,
Denise

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
Name: Edward Hartzell
Arrival Date: 30 Jan 1934
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Port of Departure: Kobe, Japan
Ethnicity/Race-
/Nationality: Finnish
Ship Name: President Van Buren
Search Ship Database: Search the President Van Buren in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Line: 10
Microfilm Serial: T715
Microfilm Roll: T715_5444
Page Number: 117

tuulakki
12-10-09, 00:17
Tuulakki,
... and started working on the suspicion that maybe Signe had a man she was in love with from Savela farm. I found many passenger records of an Edward Hartzell who was an engineer on a ship working for Standard Oil Company who travelled the world and came into the port of New York many times. I was trying to determine whether he was the son of Juho and Märtta Hartzell from Savela farm... therefore a reason for Signe putting her sister's name with the Hausjarvi Savela address....

Denise,
you make it sound like a movie! It is a fact that her sister's family moved (230 kilometers) to Hausjärvi in June 1933, but I have no details of the reason. There are, however, no signs of Signe's marriage or children. In the death report and list of manifest she was recorded with her maiden name. Has one or several voyages perhaps taken place with the names of both persons on the same day and ship?
Best regards
Tuulakki

kivinen1
12-10-09, 00:22
Tuulakki,

Your responses don't make it very easy for other people to want to help you.

Just my humble opinion.

tuulakki
12-10-09, 09:25
Tuulakki,
Your responses don't make it very easy for other people to want to help you.
Just my humble opinion.

kivinen1,
I sincerely apologize for my words, if they hurt somebody. English language is not easy for me and it is very difficult to say things in the same way the native speakers do. If my messages sounded unpolite, that really is not what I meant.:o I hope you will understand and thank you for comments, which have helped me a lot.

Best regards
Tuulakki :)

kivinen1
13-10-09, 01:00
I'm sorry, I probably got up on the wrong side of bed.

It is interesting that there have been more information from what at first seemed like wrong information. My point is that we should keep all possibilities in the thought process until we see a more certain outcome.

Denise
13-10-09, 06:57
Hi Tuulakki and Kivinen,
I try my best to help everyone I can on Finlander Forum with their queries, and sometimes have gone way beyond by making phone calls, ordering birth and death records, etc. in the United States, at my expense, for people I feel I've connected with and appreciate my help. Sometimes information or facts found, are hard to digest because of family stories that have been passed down. I have found quite a few shocking facts in my own ancestry. For example, everyone thought one of my great grandmother's brother's drown or disappeared from the Merchant Marines. I found out he had joined in on the red guard side of the Finnish Civil War, and was imprisoned in the Suomelinnan prison (he had been living in Karijoki) and supposedly died from jaundice, which is questionable. My great grandmother also had a child born out of wedlock and claimed it was her second husband's (and he had died 2 years previous). ;) My mom's father always claimed he was from royalty, but everyone in her family thought that was just a story from an alcoholic. But, what a huge royal line I did find, and what a shock that was! I guess I'm rambling on, but I just want to express that I am sincere in my efforts.
I do not speak or read Finnish or Swedish, and sometimes my interpretations or expressions may not be as clear to you as I would like them to be which is a problem for me , as you may have the same problem expressing yourself with the English language. When I don't know how to express myself I use lot's of smilie faces! :) :) :) and the point is, we are all on Finlander Forum as members, trying to help each other and should appreciate each others efforts. Tuulakki, thank-you for writing to me and expressing yourself and Kivinen, thank-you for reminding people to be more appreciative.

Best Regards,
Denise
"It's all good!" :D (my son's favorite expression meaning "all is forgiven and everything is just fine between us")

P.S. Tuulakki, I will email you Signe Kesälä's passenger record so you can enlarge it and make a copy. :) and I will see if I can find anything else.

Denise
13-10-09, 20:46
Dear Tuulakki,
I have found a couple more Kesälä names on the Institute of Migration. I don't know if these are of interest to you or not but I thought I would post them.

Best Regards,
Denise :)

Detailed passport information
Last name Kesälä
First names Elsa Stiina
Other names *
Date of birth 26.03.1872
Marital status 1
Religion Lut.
Occupation Neiti
Home parish Oulu
Province OU
Passport date 26.09.1908
Passport number 575
Passport valid (year:month) 5:0
Destination Amerikka
Passport issued by OU
Remarks *

Detailed passenger information
Last name Kesälä
First names Elsa
Age or age group 35
Port of departure Hanko
Place of destination New York
State of destination NY
Country of destination USA
Price of ticket FIM 235
Ship from Finland Titania
Date of departure from Finland 30.09.1908
Ship from England Celtic
Date of departure from England 08.10.1908
Ocean Line White Star Line
Port of departure in England Liverpool
List and page 65/21
Remarks *
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Detailed passport information
Last name Kesälä
First names Elis Wilhelm Wilhelmsson
Other names *
Date of birth . .9999
Marital status *
Religion *
Occupation Taloll.
Home parish Koski
Province TUR
Passport date 04.03.1902
Passport number 293
Passport valid (year:month) 1:0
Destination Ulkomaat
Passport issued by TUR
Remarks *
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Detailed passport information
Last name Kesälä
First names Juho Matinp.
Other names *
Date of birth 06.05.1869
Marital status 1
Religion Lut.
Occupation Taloll. pka
Home parish Rantsila
Province OU
Passport date 28.01.1903
Passport number 142
Passport valid (year:month) 5:0
Destination Amerikka
Passport issued by OU
Remarks *

tuulakki
14-10-09, 10:54
Dear Denise,

thank you for the new information. Elis Kesälä might be for example Olga's (second?) cousin on the basis of his patronymic, but the other ones come from Oulu and Rantsila (about 700 km from Mynamaki). They might be distant relatives, but it is not very likely. As Olga's records are so hard to find, I try now to look for descendants of her childhood friends.

Best regards
Tuulakki