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dandelion0202
31-10-09, 08:45
I have been researching my family tree for two years now and there is one person who eludes me completely. Can anybody help?

My Great Great Grandfather, Karl Johan Flodman. All I know about him, is that he was from Finland, was born somewhere near the Finnish/Russian border, in around 1880. (possibly Varsi?) We believe his father was also called Karl Johan Flodman - I have an old photograph somewhere, and his mother was Swedish?

In either 1901 or 1910, he came to England with some friends to avoid doing military service. In 1912, he married a Danish lady by the name of Johanne Rasmussen, in Grimsby, England. They had 4 children (one called Karl Johan Flodman of course) and Karl worked as a 2nd Engineer on trawlers.

Karl's youngest daughter still lives and although she knew a lot about her Danish family, she knows nothing about Karl's origins. I can't find him on any UK census, (we can only see up to 1911 and neither he nor his wife are on there!) I have also looked in immigration records and trawler records, but I have had no luck!

Karl died in 1959 in Grimsby, England. He is buried in Cleethorpes, with no headstone.

Are there any records in Finland that might help me? Emigration records, birth records... I don't know. I'm completely stuck and desperately want to know more about this intriguing man.

Can anyone help?
Thanks,
Danielle

Denise
31-10-09, 13:14
Hi Danielle,
From the Institute of Migration I found only 2 passport records for the name Flodman from Vaasa and no passenger records at all.

Detailed passport information
Last name Flodman
First names Georg Edvard
Other names *
Date of birth . .1891
Marital status 1
Religion Lut.
Occupation Nuorukainen
Home parish Vaasa
Province VAA
Passport date 29.09.1911
Passport number 3085
Passport valid (year:month) 5:0
Destination Amerikka
Passport issued by VAA
Remarks *

Detailed passport information
Last name Flodman
First names Robert Konstantin
Other names *
Date of birth . .1879
Marital status *
Religion Lut.
Occupation Koneenkäyttäjä
Home parish Vaasa
Province VAA
Passport date 21.08.1906
Passport number 5041
Passport valid (year:month) 5:0
Destination Ulkomaat
Passport issued by VAA
Remarks *

On Hiski, if he was from Warsi/Varsi you would search in Tyrvää: but the records only go to 1758. I can't figure out what parish you would search in for later records from the notes below. Maybe someone else on this forum will be more familiar on where you should search.

Tyrvää
From the beginning a chapel under Karkku. A church of their own at least already in 1466. Separated as an independent parish in 1520. To Tyrvää belonged:

* Kiikala chapel, founded in 1662 and separated as an independent parish in 1906
* Kiikoinen chapel, founded in 1847 and separated as an independent parish 1904
* Sammaljoki prayer house, founded in 1827

Swedish name
Tyrvää
Old names
Nedre Sastamala, Kalliala, Tyrvis

Neighbouring parishes
Punkalaidun, Vesilahti, Huittinen, Karkku, Mouhijärvi, Kiikka, Kiikoinen

Villages in Finnish
Eko, Houhajärvi, Humaloja, Hätilä, Isojärvi, Juti, Järvenpää, Kahimala, Kalliala, Kaltila, Kaltsila, Kaukola, Ketola, Koivula, Komerola, Laukula, Leiniälä, Liuhala, Lousaja, Lummaja, Marttila, Nuupala, Näntölä, Ojansuu, Pohjala, Rautajoki, Roismala, Ruoksamo, Sammaljoki, Soinila, Soukko, Stormi, Tapiola, Tyrvää, Uusikylä, Varila, Vataja, Vehmaa, Vihattula, Vinkkilä

Villages in Swedish
Eko, Houhajärvi, Humaloja, Hätilä, Isojärvi, Juti, Järvenpää, Kahimala, Kalliala, Kaltila, Kaltsila, Kaukola, Ketola, Koivula, Komerola, Laukula, Leiniälä, Liuhala, Lousaja, Lummaja, Marttila, Nuupala, Näntölä, Ojansuu, Pohjala, Rautajoki, Roismala, Ruoksamo, Sammaljoki, Soinila, Soukko, Stormi, Tapiola, Tyrvää, Uusikylä, Varila, Vataja, Vehmaa, Vihattula, Vinkkilä

Do you happen to know the names of his friends that he left with to England?

Best Regards,
Denise

June Pelo
31-10-09, 16:18
HisKi shows a Karl Johan, b. 6 Jan 1881, Pori-Björneborg, to konetehtaan Työmies Karl Johan Flodman and Aleksandra Viktoria Grönström, age 26.

Karl Johan and Aleksandra had 9 other children born there:
Hulda Aleksandra, 31 Oct 1882
Olga Viktorina, 27 Feb 1884
Alma Irene, 27 Mar 1885
Elsa Ranghild, 18 Jan 1887
Anna Charlotta, 11 May 1888
Georg Edvard, 17 Feb 1891
Dagmar Elvira, 16 Mar 1893
Fredrik Konrad, 12 Nov 1894
Wolter Olof, 28 Jul 1898

There was no marriage record for Flodman and no birth records for either Karl Johan nor Aleksandra.

dandelion0202
01-11-09, 17:59
Thankyou for looking for me. That could well be him, but I don't think I can be sure, such a shame! I wonder why there is no passport record for him? Any other ideas where I could look? Censusses perhaps?

June Pelo
01-11-09, 18:37
I noticed that the name Georg Edvard, b. 1891, in Denise's list above, also appears on the list of Flodman children I posted above. So the birth record I found in Pori-Björneborg for Karl Johan Flodman, b. 1881, shows that Georg and Karl Johan were brothers. Whether Karl Johan is your relative is another story... Maybe they didn't emigrate from Finland, but could have gone over to Sweden and left from there, which is what many Finlanders did. They didn't need a passport to go to Sweden. Then they sailed from Sweden to ports in Canada, Boston, New York, etc.

I looked through HisKi for a marriage record anywhere for Karl Johan and Aleksandra, but didn't find anything. And I couldn't find a birth record for her anywhere. Not all parishes are online, so perhaps she was born in one of those not online and they could have married elsewhere. Pori-Björneborg death records ended at 1900, so that was no help. You could try searching census records after 1910 and see if any of the Flodman names turn up.

dandelion0202
01-11-09, 19:04
Yeh, they could be brothers. Karl did have a sister called Anna. The only photo I have of Karl Johan senior is a wedding photo and my Great Great Aunt believes that it is him with his daughter Anna on her wedding day. But as for Georg... I've not heard the name but I can ask my Great Great Aunt if the name is familiar - I'm hoping that something with trigger a memory for her.

Karl was a second engineer on trawlers, so I've been wondering whether m,aybe he came to England on a boat he was working on. That would explain the lack of records for his immigration.

I have tried to attach the two photos I have, but they are too large!

I really appreciate you trying to help. It would be amazing if I could find him.

When you say check the census after 1910. how would I do this?

Karen Norwillo
01-11-09, 19:44
Danielle,
On Ancestry, I found a birth, marriage and death record for Karl J Flodman.
From England and Wales Birth Index 1915
Karl J Flodman 18 Feb 1915, mmn Rasmussen, Grimsby.
From England and Wales Marriage Index 1916-2005 Jul-Aug-Sep 1945
Karl J Flodman, Beswick, Oldham
From England and Wales Death Index
Karl J Flodman 18 Feb 1915 died Oct 1987 in North East Hampshire, Hampshire, England. Age 72, Vol 20 Pg 488
I will check the birth index for any other Flodman births with mmn Rasmussen.
Karen

Karen Norwillo
01-11-09, 20:27
Here are more births with mmn Rasmussen
Ivy M Flodman Apr-May-Jun 1913 Grimsby Vol 7a pg 1152
Elsie A Flodman Oct-Nov-Dec Grimsby 7a pg 1062
Arthur J Apr-May-Jun 1919 Grimsby 7a pg 834

From the Death Index,
Edna May Flodman 1 Sep 1916 died Jun 1980 Grimsby, Lincolnshire
Arthur James Flodman 7 May 1919 died Nov 1985 Grimsby.

From Marriage Index
Ivy M Flodman groom Hopkinson Oct-Nov-dec 1931 Grimsby 7a pg 1724
Arthur J Flodman bride Cooke A-M-J 1939 Scarborough 9d pg 812
Karl J Flodman bride Shepherd Essex SE O-N-D 1941 4a Pg 683 ? 1st marriage?
Elsa A Flodman groom Hadfield Cleethorpes 7a 1845, J-A-S, 1944
There are lots of births for these unions.

Karen Norwillo
01-11-09, 21:00
Here are the spouses for the Flodman marriages.
George L Hopkinson
Edna M Cooke
Gwendoline L Shepherd
Ronald HJP Hadfield
Joan Beswick.
I found 4 births for Ivy and George Hopkinson, 4 for Arthur and Edna Flodman, and 1 for Elsa and Arthur Flodman.

June Pelo
01-11-09, 22:34
Since your search involves England, have you tried any of the message boards for England? Here is a well-known one: http://genforum.genealogy.com/englandcountry/
If you go to google.com and put: genealogy message boards for England in the search box, you'll find many others.

Have you any old letters, documents, Bible, etc. - they sometimes contain clues.

Karen Norwillo
02-11-09, 17:14
I found a ships manifest with a Carl Flodman arriving to Glasgow, Scotland via Portland, Maine. From Finland, going to Grimsby in 1912. Says he was last in Canada.
I found yet another marriage for a Karl Flodman, misspelled Hodman, in 1948. I noticed on the marriage index alot of Flodman names ranging from 1840-1866-1871-1881-1909 and 1910, so there were other Flodman in England before Karl Sr. Perhaps some of these 3 marriages of Karl Jr weren't your Karl.

dandelion0202
29-12-09, 11:20
I haven't been on here for ages - we had a death in the family and so on and so the family tree was put on hold.
Well, the things you found on ancestry were mostly put on by me. He was only married the once, to Johanne Rasmussen, I have the marriage certificate. I know he worked on trawlers as a 1st or 2nd engineer - I think he worked on the earl hereford in 1911. He worked until the 1950's. My Grandad remembers him, he lived with them for a while, but he apparently liked a drink and my great grandad didn't approve so often wouldn't let him stay. Grandad therefore doesn't know much about him.
The ships manifest sounds promising - where did you find that?
The other births/deaths/marriages on ancestry I know well - I regularly check ancestry and findmypast for the flodman entries, to see if anything new has been put on.
No, no papers, bibles or anything were kept - my family keep nothing! I've even had trouble recently getting people to give me their old photos rather than throwing them away!

Karen Norwillo
29-12-09, 17:29
Danielle,
The manifest came from Ancestry, UK Incoming Passenger Lists 1878-1960.
Karen

dandelion0202
19-08-11, 11:06
Well, I'm back on the trail of Karl Johan Flodman, after two years!

I'm still none the wiser about our Karl. I've attached a document of almost all I know about him, plus I have all the things from this forum already. I thought if I left it a while and came back to it maybe i would find something with a clear head, but no. :(

I am now pretty convinced that the Karl Johan born in Pori is my ancestor, (HisKi shows a Karl Johan, b. 6 Jan 1881, Pori-Björneborg, to konetehtaan Työmies Karl Johan Flodman and Aleksandra Viktoria Grönström, age 26) because on his marriage certificate in 1912 he says his father is an engine turner, and doesn't "konetehtaan" mean something to do with engines:confused: I looked it up on online dictionaries.:p

Plus, Karl later had a daughter called Elsa Aleksandra, names taken from his sisters if we go by the other siblings...

Can anyone help????:D