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D J Granlund
26-11-09, 15:03
I am hoping to get an explanation of an entry I have run accross in Hiski. It also appears in the church books on FFHA. I have a prefix fo a man I can not comprehend. Sytn.m. Could some of you more experienced genealogists enlighten me? Thanks, David

Hasse
26-11-09, 17:30
I am hoping to get an explanation of an entry I have run accross in Hiski. It also appears in the church books on FFHA. I have a prefix fo a man I can not comprehend. Sytn.m. Could some of you more experienced genealogists enlighten me? Thanks, David

Sytn.m. - sytningsman. To start with see the swedish description here (http://finlander.genealogia.fi/sfhswiki/index.php/Sytning)

Hasse

D J Granlund
26-11-09, 20:29
Thank you Hasse. The explanation was in Swedish and my command of Swedish is barley better than Finnish. That is to say, nearly nonexistant. I still do not know what it means. David

Hasse
26-11-09, 20:52
How should I explain this.

One way of doing the generation shift in the country side - among farmers - was for the older generation to more or less sell the whole "business" to the younger generation against a promise written into a "sytnings" -letter or -contract where the younger generation got the responsibility over the farm - and in fact the ownership against providing for the specified needs of the older generation as long as they lived.

Actually this was kind of a pension system in old days.

I have also heard of sytningsmän where the sytningsman, not from within the family, lent money to the people living on/owning the farm against getting certain benefits at the farm for as long as he lived.

Sorry I have no xlation of the word "sytning". In Sweden they used the word "undantag" which directly translated would mean "put on exception (out of the way for the younger generation)".

Hopefully you got an idea of the meaning of the word "sytningsman"

Hasse

D J Granlund
27-11-09, 15:20
Hasse, Once again thank you. My Swedish dictionary does not illuminate syntning, so I am glad to have the explanation. I have seen reference to this landowner progression/pension system before but it was called something else but just now I am unable to remember the term or phrase. I usd to have a link that allowed me to enter Swedish words and get back English translations but it seems to have gone where the wild goose goes. David

June Pelo
27-11-09, 17:27
There are a number of Swedish/English dictionaries online, but none of them carry the word sytning, which is unusual. But it was a term used long ago and no longer used, but I've seen the term used in old data.

D J Granlund
27-11-09, 20:39
Thank you Cousin June and Hasse! I have some more terms I could use some help with. I am trying to find ancestors of Katarina Jacobsdr. I have seen her listed in the Stor Sompi, Kauhava rippikirja after she married Gustaf Mattsson Karjansalo 6 Dec 1846. All of those records indicate she is from Ylitalo and born 1 Aug 1812. All of my atempts to find her before marriage have been a failure. The marriage listing on Hiski has Trp.d:r qvsp. tj. Katarina Jacobid:r and my guess is it means something like torps dotter womans servant, but that is only my guess. Further, under village it is listed Ylitalo (Hos bdn Gust. Sompi) and that is a mystery. Could anyone explain the real translation? Thanks, David.

June Pelo
28-11-09, 01:10
David,

RE the abbreviations: hos bdn Gust Sompi indicates she was employed by farmer Gust. Sompi.

trp dr qvsp. tj. - trp dr indicates she was a crofter's daughter, qv = refers to woman, but I don't know what sp means. tj indicates servant.

I found one place that listed some abbreviations, but not all:
http://www.genline.com/resources/dictionary_abbreviations.php?page=a

Jacobid:r could mean Jacobisdotter - or Jacobsdotter.

D J Granlund
28-11-09, 15:31
Thank you Cousin June. Itis amazing how one can ignore a detail. Jacob and Jacobi, Hiski treats them alike but I have seen the i-form in the Rippikirja. I ignored it as a "latin" affectation. I was thinking the preist was using Latin carryover. This didn't help finding Katarina though. BTW it is raining here in Temecula for the first time in 8 or 9 months, Thank God. David

JenniferRipley
12-06-10, 15:39
"With the exception or exemption contract, the Finnish life annuity, means the right of the seller to its remaining lifetime, keep 'entitlement to a smaller home or a small land area excluded from the buyer's right to dispose of the transferred property. The beneficiary retains the right, even if the property could be sold further. The transferred property other than such contracts is called undantagsman, except lower, sytningshjon, or sytningstagare.