PDA

View Full Version : Anna Mårtensdotter Strang/Storstrang



Karen Norwillo
20-01-10, 21:04
I have a discrepancy with who Anna married. I found two different names. Marcus Grelsson Höök-Hokkanen 1649-26 Mar 1709 Vimpeli or Marcus Marcusson Hokkanen1659 Saarijärvi -26 Feb 1709. Both entries list Lars Marcusson Hongisto as a son. I received the info years ago showing Marcus Grelsson, but now I have another showing Marcus Marcusson. Anyone know which is correct? Both marriage years given as 1673 in Lappijärvi.

June Pelo
20-01-10, 21:15
Karen,

There seems to be a question about her husband - dating back to Kenneth Marder's data. I have Markus Grelsson Höök-Hokkanen, b. 1649, Alajärvi, as her husband - married 1673, with a son Lars. I have his father as Grels Henriksson Höök, b. ca 1601, which is questionable. Martti Strang shows his birthdate as 1659 and his patronymic as Markusson. I hope someone can straighten it out - Jaska??

Jaska Sarell
20-01-10, 21:55
Hi Karen,

Referring to the Strang family book Het sitte Strangeja.
Descendants of Heikki Strang, table 28
Anna Mårtensdotter Storstrang, d. 24.06.1707 Alajärvi
Marcus Marcusson Hokkanen, b. 1659 d. 26.02.1709 Alajärvi
His father stated as Marcus Hokkanen with no more info.
[changed the original Finnish forms]

I don't know, if he's a brother of Helga Marcusdotter Hokkanen b. 1636 Saarijärvi d. 26.05.1697 Vimpeli, wife of Marcus Olofsson Österspangar, the starting person of the first of Spangar family books, Het sitte sukua. They are my ancestors.

There's a Marcus Grelsson Höök b. abt 1577 listed in the Strang book as descendant of Johan Strang/Höök.

:) Jaska

Karen Norwillo
21-01-10, 17:42
I found a Marcus Marcusson Hockain (?Hokkanen) in Lappajärvi who died 26 Feb 1709, age 50, which would put his birth abt 1659. Also Anna Mårtensdotter Strang who died 24 Jun 1707 at age 30. That would have her birth abt 1677. So this couple couldn't have married in 1673. They would have been 14 and 4. Markus Grelsson Höök-Hokkanen on the other hand is listed as 1649 birth, which would make him 27 in 1673. The info I have says he died 26 Mar 1709. I'm beginning to suspect these are two entirely different couples. If Lars Marcusson Hongisto-Hokkanen was born in 1676, then he should be the son of Marcus Grelsson. I'm confused.

Karen Norwillo
21-01-10, 18:10
I found this 1673 marriage on FFHA in Lappajärvi. Could this possibly be the marriage? I can't quite make-out the old handwriting.

Karen Norwillo
21-01-10, 20:18
Did some more checking on Hiski. About Helga Henriksdotter 10 Feb 1678-28 Feb 1708, married to Erich Henrichsson Keijsar 10 Jun 1701. The daughter Susanna born 1 Feb 1708 is not hers. She was already dead. Mother of Susanna and 3 other children was Helena Henrichsdotter. Does anyone know what this means? After the birth of Anna Henrichsdotter in 1713, Erich Henrichsson Keisar and Helena Henrichsdotter, there is this, Helena (Helga pyyhitty yli) I found one birth where mother not given, 7.3.1702 Konungzåå, Erich Henricss. Keijsar...Maria. This should be Helga's daughter. I could not find a marriage of Helena and Erich.
What a confusing family.

Jaska Sarell
21-01-10, 21:29
I found this 1673 marriage on FFHA in Lappajärvi. Could this possibly be the marriage? I can't quite make-out the old handwriting.
I just found the same (link (http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/kirjat/Kirkonkirjat/lappajarvi/syntyneet-vihityt-kuolleet_1663-1729_uk149/12.htm) to whole page):
Feria 2 Pentacost.
Marcus Marcusson Hockainen och
Anika Morthens dr Strång
The year is 1673 and thus the date (Whit Monday) is 19th of May (May 1673 in almanac (http://almanakka.helsinki.fi/arkisto/167305.gif)).

The family appears in the communion book 1694-1709 pages, including Lars.
1694-1705 page 32/33 (http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/kirjat/Kirkonkirjat/lappajarvi/rippikirja_1694-1709_uk146/8.htm)
daughter Lisa dies 1697 (HisKi (http://hiski.genealogia.fi/hiski?en+t4229687)) - b. abt 1679 (or before)
son Pehr dies 1699(HisKi (http://hiski.genealogia.fi/hiski?en+t4229867)) - b. abt 1675
Lars' wife Maria Jöransdotter arrives by 1705 (oo 18 Apr 1704 (http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/kirjat/Kirkonkirjat/lappajarvi/syntyneet-vihityt-kuolleet_1663-1729_uk149/175.htm))
1706-1709 page 30/31 (http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/kirjat/Kirkonkirjat/lappajarvi/rippikirja_1694-1709_uk146/7.htm)
Anna Mårtensdotter dies 1707 (HisKi (http://hiski.genealogia.fi/hiski?en+t4230265))
Marcus Marcusson dies 1709 (HisKi (http://hiski.genealogia.fi/hiski?en+t4230301))

The CB markings match with the death dates.
The only detail that doesn't match is Anna's age at death. It's clearly enough 30 in the original (http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/kirjat/Kirkonkirjat/lappajarvi/syntyneet-vihityt-kuolleet_1663-1729_uk149/219.htm) as well, but assumingly that should be 50. Cannot imagine any other plausible explanation.

:) Jaska

Karen Norwillo
21-01-10, 22:02
Jaska,
Thank you so much.
I found another error in the new info given to me about Helga Henriksdotter 28 Feb 1678. If she was the daughter of Brita Mårtensdotter Strang and Oloff Eskilsson Saukkonen, she should be Helga Olofsdotter. I found many births for this couple including a Helga in 1678. If a Helga Henriksdotter was married to Erich Henricsson Keisar, then she is not the same person.

June Pelo
21-01-10, 22:19
I have an Erik Henriksson Keisari, b. 2 Feb 1670, Soini, married #1 in 1701 in Lappajärvi to Helga Olofsdotter Saukkonen, b. 10 Feb 1678, Soini. I have no parents for Helga. They had one child - name not known. Helga died 24 Feb 1704 and Erik remarried 1706 in Saarijärvi to Helga Henriksdotter Mulikka, b. 1684, Saarijärvi, d. 1758. I have a note they had 5 children. Helga Henriksdotter remarried to Olof Henriksson Keisari- Pohjasmäki, b. 1678, Soini, son of Henrik Persson Keisari and Anna Johansdotter.

Karen Norwillo
21-01-10, 22:46
June,
That matches the info I had. The only child I found for Erich Henrichsson Keijsar before Helga #1 died was 7.3.1702 -Maria. All the ones after that say Helena Henriksdotter as mother. 1.2.1708 Susanna, 26.2.1709 Maria, 26.5.1710 Lijsa, 21.2.1713 Anna. I also have mother's name as Helga Helena.
The person who gave me the new info has the two Helgas mixed up. The birth, marriage and death dates actually belong to Helga #1. Thanks for the correct dates for #2.
Karen

Jaska Sarell
21-01-10, 23:52
You may refer five early generations of Keisari family to the data at their website (http://koti.japo.fi/~keisari/).
If there's something wrong, at least you know whom to blame :rolleyes:

:) Jaska

June Pelo
22-01-10, 00:10
June,
That matches the info I had. The only child I found for Erich Henrichsson Keijsar before Helga #1 died was 7.3.1702 -Maria. All the ones after that say Helena Henriksdotter as mother. 1.2.1708 Susanna, 26.2.1709 Maria, 26.5.1710 Lijsa, 21.2.1713 Anna. I also have mother's name as Helga Helena.
The person who gave me the new info has the two Helgas mixed up. The birth, marriage and death dates actually belong to Helga #1. Thanks for the correct dates for #2.
Karen

I would guess that Helena Henriksdotter is the same person as Helga Henriksdr. The Keisari family is difficult to follow.. :(

Karen Norwillo
22-01-10, 16:32
Thanks, Jaska, for the Keisari site.
The new info I got is from someone I don't know. Alot of it I had previously, with some minor discrepancies, but I find some of this new info is not correct. That's why I'm rechecking it against what I already had. Thank you again.
Karen

JenniferRipley
22-01-10, 17:48
Hi Karen,
I'd like this info as well.
I have Heiki Pehrsson Keisari born in Soini 1642 died 1678 in Soini.
He married Anna Juhontytär Muhonen born in Saarijarvi in 1647.
Children:
Anti 1666
Maria 1647
Erkki 1670
Briita 1671
Peitari 1674
Olavi 1678
But somehow I also have Heiki marrying Susanna Kyrölainen in 1751.
Is this your Heiki and I have no idea about why I've recorded as marrying a second time while his wife was still living (Anna died in 1712)
Jennifer Ripley

JenniferRipley
22-01-10, 17:58
Hi Again,
I have an Erkki born born in 1670
He married Helga Heikintytär Mulikka with one child--Susanna
But I think there were two Helgas he married
HELGA Olavintytär SAUKKONEN b. 1701 in Lappajarvi
and HELGA Heikintytär MULIKKA b 1706 in Saarijarvi.
Jennifer

Jaska Sarell
22-01-10, 18:06
Jennifer,

See what Keisari site table 5 says here (http://koti.japo.fi/~keisari/lomakkeet/Filip.htm#Table%205).

:) Jaska

Karen Norwillo
22-01-10, 21:31
Jennifer,
Yes, this is correct as far as I can tell. Erkki/Erich was married twice to Helga's.
Heikki Pehrsson Keisari and Anna Muhonen are his parents.
That Keisari site is great.
Karen

JenniferRipley
22-01-10, 22:34
I am a descendant in so many different ways from these people.
I even have the straight mother to daughter relationship mtDNA from the female side of the family Höök. It's haplogroup H1b.
My Grandmother immigrated in 1907 as a young girl who's mother had died in childbirth. Her name was Jenny Malvina Piispanen from Saarijarvi. She immigrated at age 14 and died in Fairport Harbor, Ohio in her forties.
Thanks again,
Jennifer

Boris
22-01-10, 23:38
8 polvea alaspäin Markus Markusson synt 00.12.1673. On minun kanta-isä.
Boris Ström [Quote = Jaska Sarell, 28934] Löysin juuri sama ([url = "http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/kirjat/Kirkonkirjat/lappajarvi/syntyneet-vihityt-kuolleet_1663-1729_uk149/12.htm"] linkkiä [/ URL], jotta koko sivu):
[I] Feria 2 Pentacost.
Marcus Marcusson Hockainen och
Anika Morthens dr Strang [/ i]
Vuosi on 1673, ja näin päivämäärä (helluntaipäivä) on 19 toukokuu ([url = "http://almanakka.helsinki.fi/arkisto/167305.gif"] toukokuu 1673 ja kalenteri [/ url]).

Perheiden näkyy ehtoollisen kirja 1694-1709 sivua, Lars.
1694-1705 [url = "http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/kirjat/Kirkonkirjat/lappajarvi/rippikirja_1694-1709_uk146/8.htm"] sivu 32/33 [/ URL]
tytär Lisa kuolee 1697 ([url = "http://hiski.genealogia.fi/hiski?en+t4229687"] HisKi [/ url]) - B. n. 1679 (tai ennen)
poika Pehr kuolee 1699 ([url = "http://hiski.genealogia.fi/hiski?en+t4229867"] HisKi [/ url]) - B. n. 1675
Lars-vaimo Maria Jöransdotter saapuu vuoteen 1705 (oo [url = "http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/kirjat/Kirkonkirjat/lappajarvi/syntyneet-vihityt-kuolleet_1663-1729_uk149/175.htm"] 18 huhtikuu 1704 [/ URL])
1706-1709 [url = "http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/kirjat/Kirkonkirjat/lappajarvi/rippikirja_1694-1709_uk146/7.htm"] sivu 30/31 [/ URL]
Anna Mårtensdotter kuolee 1707 ([url = "http://hiski.genealogia.fi/hiski?en+t4230265"] HisKi [/ url])
Marcus Marcusson kuolee 1709 ([url = "http://hiski.genealogia.fi/hiski?en+t4230301"] HisKi [/ url])

CB merkinnät ottelun kuoleman päivämäärät.
Ainoa tieto, joka ei täsmää on Anna ikä kuoleman. Se on kyllin selvästi 30 [url = "http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/kirjat/Kirkonkirjat/lappajarvi/syntyneet-vihityt-kuolleet_1663-1729_uk149/219.htm"] alkuperäistä [/ URL] samoin, mutta assumingly että olisi 50. Voi kuvitella mitään muuta uskottavaa selitystä.

:) Jaska [/ quote]

Jaska Sarell
22-01-10, 23:47
EN: Boris, your Google translated (?) quotation of my message looks rather funny.
FI: Boris, Google-käännöksesi (?) viestini lainauksesta näyttää aika hassulta.

:) Jaska

June Pelo
23-01-10, 01:04
Jennifer,
Yes, this is correct as far as I can tell. Erkki/Erich was married twice to Helga's.
Heikki Pehrsson Keisari and Anna Muhonen are his parents.
That Keisari site is great.
Karen

Many years ago Ken Marder attempted to put together a genealogy of the Keisari family. I think I still have a copy of it around here. Now it has been revised and corrected and in a better format to follow. Do you remember, Jaska?

Jaska Sarell
23-01-10, 08:25
June,
Yes, I remember Ken (1935-1999). He provided the first larger data compilation from that area to me.

:) Jaska

Boris
24-01-10, 12:25
Minun kirjoitukseni meni itse sekaisin, on harmi. Lähetin oikein kirjoitettu asiat Hasselle. Katsotaan sitten[Quote = Jaska Sarell, 28959] EN: Boris, Google kääntää (?) Noteeraus Viestini on melko hauska.
FI: Boris, Google-käännöksesi (?) Viestini lainauksesta Näyttää aika hassulta.

:) Jaska [/ quote]

Boris
25-01-10, 14:04
Hello June,
Vilppu The emperor line of descendants of the five.
I knee you Pietari Vilpusson Emperor born in 1614 And changed my Lappjärvi.
Marketta Vilpusdotter born 1617 changed the Kronoby.
Boris[Quote = kesäkuu Pelo, 28937] Olen Erik Henriksson Keisari, s. 2 helmikuu 1670, Soini, naimisissa # 1 in 1701 in Lappajärvi ja Helga Olofsdotter Saukkonen, s. 10 helmikuu 1678, Soini. Minulla ei ole vanhempia Helga. Heillä oli yksi lapsi - nimeä ei tiedetä. Helga kuoli 24 helmikuu 1704 ja Erik avioitui 1706 Saarijärvellä ja Helga Henriksdotter Mulikka, s. 1684, Saarijärvi, D. 1758. Olen merkille ne oli 5 lasta. Helga Henriksdotter meni uusiin naimisiin Olof Henriksson Keisari, Pohjasmäki, s. 1678, Soini, poika Henrik Persson Keisari ja Anna Johansdotter. [/ Quote]

JenniferRipley
25-01-10, 20:45
Hi everyone,
I can try to read the messages written in Finnish but Google translates them awkwardly.
What would "emperor" mean? And/or River King?
Thanks,
Jennifer

Jaska Sarell
25-01-10, 20:59
Jennifer,
Finnish language is too different (not difficult for human :p ) for simple machine translators like Google's.
Your samples are names that should not be translated. Google translator has made Keisari = Emperor, as emperor = keisari -- those words have different origins. Kuninkaanjoki is a village in Soini, that translates as "King's River".

:) Jaska

JenniferRipley
25-01-10, 22:07
Smartypants;) but thank you for the translation!
And to think that I'm the next generation of Finnish-American researchers!
PS my kids can count to ten in Finnish but I'll be continually sorry my mother or grandparents only spoke the strange language when they were telling secrets~
Jennifer

Karen Norwillo
26-01-10, 15:31
Jennifer,
I had to laugh about the comment that your grandparents spoke Finnish when they didn't want the younger generation to know what they were talking about. My grandparents did that. Not only with us, but my mother said she would get so mad when she was at my Finnish grandparents and they spoke Finn to the others. Her family was Swede and Swede-Finn. She remembered how "left out" she felt.
Karen

June Pelo
26-01-10, 17:39
I can remember as a child when my parents would say something to each other in Swedish - we knew it was something they didn't want us to know but wouldn't tell us what they said. My grandmother always spoke to me in Swedish and the only word I could understand was Yuni. But when she offered a dish of candy, I didn't need to know what she was saying! :)