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Madeleine
08-10-10, 21:46
Hi,

I fear that this in an impossible thing to find, but I give it a go.

Two of my grandfather's cousins moved to USA at some point in the beginning of the 1900's. I only have the names and birth dates of these women, and also the name and birth date of a child of one of them. It's been ages since I did family search otherwise than browsing through the microfilms here in Finland, so I have no idea how to start. So, here's the little information I have:

1. Maria Wuorinen, b. 1st Feb 1896 Ilmajoki, Finland; moved to USA
2. Lempi Matilda Wuorinen, b. 13th Feb 1900 Laihia, Finland; moved to USA
3. Lempi's son Erkki Jaakko Jalmari Wuorinen, b. 20th Feb 1923; don't know if he was born or moved to USA

Maria and Lempi are sisters. I have no idea if they had these last names when they moved to USA or if they traveled there alone or together.

If anyone could help me in any way, I'd be very grateful.

kivinen1
09-10-10, 08:53
Have you tried to use this site?

https://beta.familysearch.org/

Check for possible misspellings.

kivinen1
09-10-10, 09:00
Could this be Maria's passenger record? This is from the Institute of Migration / Siirtolaisuusinstituutti - Finland.

Detailed passenger information

Last name Wuorinen

First names Maria
Age or age group 16
Port of departure Hanko
Place of destination Copper Cliff
State of destination ON
Country of destination CDN
Price of ticket FIM 298
Ship from Finland Astraea
Date of departure from Finland 26.10.1912
Ship from England Empress of Britain
Date of departure from England 01.11.1912
Ocean Line C.P.R. Line
Port of departure in England *
List and page 89/94
Remarks Vaasa!

kivinen1
09-10-10, 09:06
And perhaps Maria's passport record?

Detailed passport information

Last name Wuorinen
First names Maria
Other names *
Date of birth . .1896
Marital status 1
Religion Lut.
Occupation Torpparin tytär
Home parish Laihia
Province VAA
Passport date 10.10.1912
Passport number 3685
Passport valid (year:month) 5:0
Destination Amerikka
Passport issued by VAA
Remarks *

kivinen1
09-10-10, 09:25
Copper Cliff is in Sudbury, Ontario, Canada. It is north of Toronto and east of Sault Ste. Marie.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&expIds=17259,17315,23628,23670,23756,24692,24878,2 4879,25834,26328,26644,26746,26761,26849,27006,270 15&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=copper+cliff+ontario&cp=0&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Copper+Cliff,+Greater+Sudbury,+ON,+Canada&gl=us&ei=8gmwTKLyCYK0sAOc9ZzgDA&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBcQ8gEwAA

Madeleine
09-10-10, 18:54
Thank you for the responses. I think the passport might be Maria's, as the year of birth is correct. I once paid the fee to be able to use the Siirtolaisinstituutti website, but I guess I didn't think of searching for all I needed then. The passenger information could be correct too; at least the age is correct. I guess it's impossible to know if these women married and changed their name. I got a photo of Maria from my relative, but there are no markings on it of the place where the photo was taken.

Is it common that the passenger information says the destination is USA when it really is Canada?

kivinen1
10-10-10, 01:55
I have seen a few that say "Amerikka" that actually went to Canada. Not sure what to make of it.

Maybe someone that has access to the Canadian port records can see if the manifest says anything like "going to a friend in XYZ".

Since the passenger record is "newer", I'd be more apt to trust it before the passport record.

Someone may have access to ancestry.com for finding a marriage or something for one of them.

I see potential with a married name of Hautala, in British Columbia, Canada, but it is simply a guess.

Good luck.

JRipley
14-10-10, 22:47
Hi,
The only entry from ancestry.com

Name: Lempi Wuorinen
Arrival Date: 31 Dec 1922
Birth Year: abt 1904
Birth Location: Finland
Birth Location Other: alartaro
Age: 18
Gender: Female
Ethnicity/Race*/Nationality: Finnish
Port of Departure: Southampton
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Berengaria

I have seen the Wuorinen name shortened to Wuori in Ohio.

But I also see;
Lempi M Werho
Social Security #: 551767619
Sex: Female
Birth Date: 17 Jul 1900
Birthplace: Finland
Death Date: 13 Oct 1968
Death Place: Fresno

HTH,
Jennifer

Denise
16-10-10, 07:08
Hi Madeleine,
I believe I have found the original passenger record of Maria Wuorinen from the Canadian Archives and Library website. http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/index-e.html?PHPSESSID=8uot4oga9gfqqghn4br9ck2687
She is the 5th passenger from the bottom of this manifest.
Hope this helps you.

Best Regards,
Denise

Passenger Lists, 1865-1922
Item Display
Return to results | Search | Search Help
View Image
Ship:
EMPRESS OF BRITAIN
Shipping Line:
Canadian Pacific Railway Co.
Departure Port and Date (yyyy/mm/dd):
Liverpool, England - 1912-11-01
Port and Date of Arrival:
Quebec, Que. - 1912-11-08
Reference:
RG 76
Microfilm:
T-4793

Madeleine
18-10-10, 22:27
Thank you again for your replies! So it seems that these Wuorinen people went to Canada instead of USA. I also managed to get this information (source is the Finnish Institute of Migration):

- Lempi Matilda Vuorinen, born in Laihia, Finland Feb 15th 1900, date of passport 1929, destination Canada, passport number 1097

- Erkki Jaakko Jalmari Vuorinen, born in Laihia Feb 20th 1923, date of passport 1930, destination Canada, passport number 1211

Is there any way to know if Lempi and Erkki went to the same place in Canada as Maria did? Where should I look for Maria's information next; are there scanned Canadian microfilms online somewhere?

Sorry for all the dumb questions. :)

Denise
19-10-10, 00:08
Hi Madeleine,
No, there are not scanned Canadian records that are searchable, other than if Ancestry.com has it. The link I used http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/index-e.html?PHPSESSID=8uot4oga9gfqqghn4br9ck2687 you have to know the ship name and year/date of travel and look through page by page of the manifests for the record. The ship Maria was on had 48 pages that I had to search thru. It's not an easy site, but once you get the hang of it and have info. on the ship name and date they left Finland or England, whatever, then it's worthwhile. You can try searching it by the year but then you have dozens of ships coming in, and could entail looking at hundreds of pages. I heard that the Canadian Archives were supposed to be transcribing their records, but that was about 3 years ago and they still haven't done it. If you can find exact dates of travel/or ship names on the rest you are looking for from the Institute of Migration, let me know. I'll search for them for you.

Best Regards,
Denise

kivinen1
19-10-10, 00:15
Posting a few links that might be of interest here:

Ontario Cemetery Finding Aid [it has links to several other pages]
http://www.islandnet.com/ocfa/

Ontario Birth Registrations:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~births/

Automated Genealogy: [it's always free]

http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/

Or:

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/census-1911/index-e.html

Denise
19-10-10, 00:42
Hi Madeleine,
Just realized that the two other names you have applied for passports in 1929 and 1930. They will not be on the Canadian Archive site as it only goes to 1922.
:mad:

Sorry,
Denise

Denise
19-10-10, 00:53
Hi Madeleine,
Bingo, that Canadian site does have later records of immigration and these are searchable by name. Here is a link to the Vuorinen names....http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/immigration-1925/001012-110.01-e.php?PHPSESSID=8kvikhtfvdq80mllqq46bkrhc4&q1=vuorinen&q2=&q3=&q4=&q5=&interval=20
Click on the last name next to the one you are looking for. :D

Best Regards,
Denise

eeva.hakkinen
20-10-10, 23:27
I have seen a few that say "Amerikka" that actually went to Canada. Not sure what to make of it.


Well. when you are looking from far enough, like from Europe, "America" consists of North America, South America and what we call "in-between-America" (which is often considered as part of South America). North America in turn consists of Canada, USA and Mexico. I ran into this the first time I visited USA. I was told that "In this country, when you say America, it means only the 48 continental states of USA". Of course this American convention is nowadays seeping into our speech via TV and all these global connections, but when you read church books from the 19th century, you should keep in mind, that "America" might mean also, say, Venezuela or Argentina and definitely Canada.

kivinen1
21-10-10, 00:04
Well. when you are looking from far enough, like from Europe, "America" consists of North America, South America and what we call "in-between-America" (which is often considered as part of South America). North America in turn consists of Canada, USA and Mexico. I ran into this the first time I visited USA. I was told that "In this country, when you say America, it means only the 48 continental states of USA". Of course this American convention is nowadays seeping into our speech via TV and all these global connections, but when you read church books from the 19th century, you should keep in mind, that "America" might mean also, say, Venezuela or Argentina and definitely Canada.

Eeva,

Your comment is not needed and not appreciated.

I do not need a geography lesson.

My reply was regarding the wording of the entry.

I have seen Canada used as well, so I politely ask you to not be such a smarty pants, or was that a poor attempt at humor? :confused:

eeva.hakkinen
21-10-10, 01:03
Eeva,

Your comment is not needed and not appreciated.

I do not need a geography lesson.

My reply was regarding the wording of the entry.

I have seen Canada used as well, so I politely ask you to not be such a smarty pants, or was that a poor attempt at humor? :confused:

Sorrysorrysorry! I was not trying humor or geography lesson or anything, just thought you were confused by the word "Amerikka" meaning Canada and tried to explain the usage of the word in the old church records. Obviously I failed. I do know some priests specified Canada when they meant Canada, especially later on, but still you should not think America or North America in church books means only USA.

Did others see my comment as offensive? If so, it must be my poor English.
My apologies!

Madeleine
29-10-10, 23:34
Apologies for not replying anything for a while. Work has kept me busy and also my neck is so jammed, that I can't use computer much (as I already do that at work). Anyway, I checked these from the records of arriving ships:

- Vuorinen, Lempi M, ship was Oscar II, arrived at Halifax May 18th 1929. Stayed at sister Maiju (should probably be Maija) Vuorinen at 399 Queen St. W. Toronto, On.

- Vuorinen, Jaakko Jalmari (so he left Erkki out of his name), ship was Hellig, arrived at Halifax August 22nd 1930. Stayed at mother Lempii Vuorinen at 173 Queen St. Toronto, On.

Are these of any help? I would love to be able to track down where they lived later and if they married and had children, as I wish to find their grandchildren or someone who could still be alive. My mother's cousin looked for present day Vuorinens in Toronto for me (I mean, addresses, from the phone book), so I guess one option would be to write to them all and hope that at least one of them is my relative.