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kara15
24-11-11, 00:14
Looking for info on Brita Kaustara (Gustava) Mattila born 1875 in Kestila, Finland, she had 8 siblings, father Johan Georgsson Mattila b.Oct 11, 1851, mother Beata Vayrynen b.1851. Brita had a son Waino Mattila b. March 31, 1896 out of wedlock.
I'd like to find info confirming she is his mother.

kara15
28-11-11, 23:54
I must be doing something wrong because I can't find any of these people when I search.

BessemerFinn
29-11-11, 02:02
Here is the family of Johan Georgsson Mattila in Kestilä Rippikirja, 1857-1866, at Gestilä 1 Kärki, Mattila:

http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/kirjat/Kirkonkirjat/kestila/rippikirja_1857-1866_ik107/11.htm

BessemerFinn
29-11-11, 02:50
Here is Brita Gustava's birth record, born 17.3.1875 (right page, 5th name from top)

Unfortunately only limited records for Kestilä are available at SSHY and Digital Archives...and none to show the birth of Väinö Mattila in 1896.

311 rippikirja 1857-1866 IK107 IAa:1

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85 syntyneet 1857-1880 IK107 IC:1

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55 väkilukutauluja 1857-1877 VÄ89

BessemerFinn
29-11-11, 03:04
Here are 1875 and 1880 Henkikirjat showing the family at Kestilä 1, Kärki, Mattila

kara15
29-11-11, 05:23
Thank you, thank you, thank you. That's great info on her. Is Karhu the last name for Georg Pahlsson instead of Mattila?

BessemerFinn
29-11-11, 06:19
Yes, it does appear to be Karhu, born 13.9.1820.

HisKi shows Jöran, born 13.9.1820, Mieslax No. 25, Paltamo; parents Påhl Karhu and Ana Möttönen, age 33

Here is Jöran's Paltamo birth record: http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/kirjat/Kirkonkirjat/paltamo/syntyneet-vihityt-kuolleet_1811-1856_ik186/61.htm

BessemerFinn
29-11-11, 06:28
And here are Jöran Karhu, born 13.9.1820; father Påhl, born 1.6.1799; and grandfather Påhl, born 25.2.1771, at Mieslax in Paltamo Rippikirja: http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/kirjat/Kirkonkirjat/paltamo/rippikirja_1813-1822_ik183/189.htm

BessemerFinn
29-11-11, 06:38
Påhl Karhu, born 25.2.1771; parents Michel Karhu, born 1746 and Anna Kekotar, born 1750: http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/kirjat/Kirkonkirjat/paltamo/rippikirja_1792-1802_ik183/100.htm

BessemerFinn
29-11-11, 06:59
More of the Karhu family...

The mother of Michel Karhu, born 1746, was Elin Hytitär, born 1698

http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/kirjat/Kirkonkirjat/paltamo/rippikirja_1773-1778_ik182/456.htm

http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/kirjat/Kirkonkirjat/paltamo/rippikirja_1767-1772_ik181/159.htm

BessemerFinn
29-11-11, 07:12
Påhl Karhu, wife Elin Hytitär and children...

http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/kirjat/Kirkonkirjat/paltamo/rippikirja_1738-1744_ik181/10.htm

http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/kirjat/Kirkonkirjat/paltamo/rippikirja_1761-1766_ik181/150.htm

BessemerFinn
29-11-11, 18:26
Jöran Karhu, born 13.9.1820 moved his family from Paltamo to Kajaani on 30.12.1856:

http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/kirjat/Kirkonkirjat/paltamo/rippikirja_1851-1857_ik184/185.htm

http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/kirjat/Kirkonkirjat/paltamo/muuttaneet_1838-1878_mko1-3/21.htm (right page, last entry)

http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/kirjat/Kirkonkirjat/kajaani/muuttaneet_1850-1868_ik90_sisaan/16.htm (left page, 3rd entry)

On 7.1.1857 (sic), the family moved from Kajaani to Piippola.

http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/kirjat/Kirkonkirjat/kajaani/muuttaneet_1850-1868_ik90_ulos/20.htm (left page, 1st entry)

They must have moved to Kestilä prior to 7.6.1857, as that was the communion marking for Jöran Karhu in Kestilä Rippikirja.

BessemerFinn
29-11-11, 22:00
On 5.7.1857, Georg (Jöran) Karhu moved his family into Kestilä from Kajana (Kajaani) (left page, entry #7)

http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=7919410

Apparently he never went to Piippola (or I misread the record).

kara15
30-11-11, 15:44
I couldn't find any names I recognized on this link.

Påhl Karhu, wife Elin Hytitär and children...

http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/kirj...4_ik181/10.htm

BessemerFinn
30-11-11, 18:50
These older records are not only difficult to read, it's often hard to determine which children go with which parents. I've offered up my best effort below. But perhaps someone here with more experience (and better eyes) can lend a hand...

Paltamo Rippikirja, 1738-1744, Törmänmäki Hyttilä, beginning middle of the page: http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/kirjat/Kirkonkirjat/paltamo/rippikirja_1738-1744_ik181/10.htm

The first name is that of Påhl Karhu and the second is that of his wife Elin Hytitär.

The next two names are those of son Anders Karhu (born ?) and his wife Carin Rusatar

Followed by the names of Påhl's other children, 5 sons: Matts (born ?); Henrich (born 1725); Påhl (born 1726); Pehr (born 1730); and Olof (born 30.7.1737); and 3 daughters: Chirstin (born 24.5.1727); Elin (born 25.3.1731); and Margeta (born 2.4.1735). Eric (born 21.5.1733) should also be shown here...but I don't see him.

The last name could be that of Elin's father Anders.

Paltamo Rippikirja, 1731-1737, Törmänmäki: http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/kirjat/Kirkonkirjat/paltamo/rippikirja_1731-1737_ik181/11.htm

The first name is probably that of Anders Hytitär, father of Elin; because Påhl Karhu is shown here as Måg or son-in-law (3rd name). The second name should be that of Anders' wife. Below the names of Påhl Karhu and wife Elin, are those of their 5 children, Anders; Henrich; Matts; Chirstin and ?. But there should be other children shown here, namely Påhl, Pehr, Eric, Elin and Margeta

HisKi shows that Elin Andersdr Hytitär died 6.4.1783 at the age of 85.

BessemerFinn
30-11-11, 19:31
Here is a thread posted on Suku Forum, which relates to the Karhu family: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fi&u=http://suku.genealogia.fi/archive/index.php/t-11128.html&ei=CGfWTpHbKNO1tweKkIifCA&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDYQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3DAnders%2BHytit%25C3%25A4r%2BPaltamo%2 6hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26rlz%3D1R2TSNA_en%26biw%3D1350% 26bih%3D577%26tbm%3Ddsc%26prmd%3Dimvns

And here is a very rough translation for a part of that thread:

Blue-eyed 21.07.10, 15:22 21.07.10, 15:22
Eila hyvä, Eila good

jos uskallat luottaa tähän, mitä minulla on niin tarkasteleppa tätä rimpsua (Tapani voinee avittaa, jos olen mennyt metsään ja seurannut vääriä jälkiä :D:) if you dare to rely on this, what I have so tarkasteleppa this flounce (Tapani can probably make a real contribution, if I've gone into the woods and followed the wrong tracks: D:)

Matti Karhu haudattu 1682 Paltamo (Hiski Paltamo haudatut) Matti Bear buried in 1682 Paltamo (Hezekiah Paltamo buried)
pso Elin Kovalatar ??? PSO Living Kovalatar?? (Mormoonien tietokanta) (Mormons database)
poika Paavo Matinpoika Karhu s. 1681 Paltamo k. 20.1.1756 Paltamo Törmänmäki Hyttilä, tullut vävyksi Hyttilään Son of a son, Paavo Matti Karhu P. 1681 Paltamo d. 20/01/1756 Paltamo Törmänmäki Hyttilä, become vävyksi Hyttilään
pso Elin Antintytär Hytytär s. 1698 Paltamo Törmänmäki Hyttilä k. leskenä 6.4.1783 samassa paikassa PSO Living Antin daughter Hytytär p. 1698 Paltamo Törmänmäki Hyttilä widow d. 4/6/1783 in the same place
poika Antti a son, Antti
http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/sivut/HisKi-digiarkisto.php?bid=1388&pnum=9 http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/sivut/HisKi-digiarkisto.php?bid=1388&pnum=9
pso Kaarina Rusatar PSO, Kaarina Rusatar
Kummallekaan en löydä syntymä- enkä kuolinaikaa, mormoonit tarjoaa vuotta n. 1713, mutta onko se liian aikaisin? I can not find either of birth and I death, Mormons offers a year around 1713, but is it too early? Elin Hytytär olisi ollut vain 15-vuotias synyttäessään Antin. Hytytär body would have been only a 15-year-old synyttäessään Antin.
poika Paavo Antinpoika Karhu s. 6.11.1738 Paltamo Törmänmäki k. 12.2.1791 Paltamo Mieslahti Sorjolan uudistilalla nro 30 a son, Paavo Antinpoika Bear P. Paltamo Törmänmäki d. 06/11/1738 12/02/1791 Paltamo Male Gulf Sorjolan new farm No. 30
pso 24.3.1765 Paltamossa 03/24/1765 PSO Paltamo
Elin Ollintytär Kovalainen s. 1743 Paltamo Mieslahti k. 30.11.1806 Paltamo Mieslahti Olli's daughter living Kovalainen p. 1743 Paltamo Male Gulf d. 30/11/1806 Paltamo Male Gulf
heillä 7 lasta, joiden jälkipolvia en ole tutkinut they have seven children, whose posterity I have not studied the

Eila, tässä sulle vielä yksi lähdepaikka, jos et jotain löydä: Eila, this sulle yet another source of the place, if there is something you find:
http://www.holappa.info/html/perunkirjoja.html http://www.holappa.info/html/perunkirjoja.html

Ne ovat Veli Holapan ja Lea Holman keräämiä perunkirjatietoja. They are brother and Holapan Lea Holman collected by the Peruvian book information.
Esim. Tästä Paavo Karhusta siellä kirjoitetaan näin. For example, this SpongeBob Bear there is written this way. Tämä on lyhennetty versio, jonka olen kirjannut ylös omaan tiedostooni: This is a shortened version, which I have recorded up to a file:

Perunkirja N:o 57, 6.11.1794 Påhl Karhu, kuoli helmikuussa 1791 Sorjolan kruununtilalla n:o 30 Mieslahdessa. Peru's book No 57, 11.6.1794 Påhl Bear, died in February 1791 Sorjolan crown holding the No. 30 man in Lahti. leski Elin Kovalatar, lapset Olof, Påhl, Matts, Elin, Maria ja Brita. widow living Kovalatar, children, Olof, Påhl, Samuel, Eli, Mary and Brita. Vain Olof ja Påhl täysi-ikäisiä, toisten holhoojaksi lähin sukulainen Påhl Karhu. Only Olof and Påhl of age, other legal guardian for the nearest relative of the Påhl Bear.

terkuin Arla terkuin Arla

BessemerFinn
30-11-11, 21:33
Here is what I believe to be the genealogy for Johan Jöransson Mattila...

1. Johan Jöransson Mattila, born 15.10.1851, Mieslax 8, Paltamo; died ?

2. Jöran Påhlsson Karhu, born 13.9.1820, Mieslax 25, Paltamo; died ?
3. Eva Lisa Michelsdr Heikkinen, born 2.2.1819, Mieslax 27, Paltamo; parents Michel Heikkinen and Johanna Kempainen; died ?
Married 17.4.1842, Mieslax 8, Paltamo


4. Påhl Påhlsson Karhu, born 1.6.1799, Mieslax 14, Paltamo; died 20.2.1833, Mieslax 8, Paltamo, age 33 years, 8 months
5. Anna Möttönen, spouse, born 6.1787 (probably in Ristijärvi); died 11.2.1870, Mieslahti, Paltamo, age 82 years, 8 months
Married 23.6.1817, Ristijärvi

8. Påhl Michelsson Karhu, born 25.2.1771, Törmänmäki, Paltamo; died 4.1.1831, Mieslax 8, Paltamo, age 59 years, 9 months
9. Elin Oikaritar, spouse, born 30.9.1767 (probably in Hyrynsalmi); died ?
Married 17.2.1793, Hyrynsalmi

16. Michel Påhlsson Karhu, born about 1746, Paltamo; died 23.7.1824, Mieslax 14, Paltamo, age 78
17. Anna Andersdr Kekotar, spouse, born about 1750; died ?
Married 25.2.1770, Paltamo

32. Paulus Maths Carhu (Karhu), born about 1681; died 20.1.1756, Väyrylä, Paltamo, age 75
33. Elin Andersdr Hytitär, spouse, born about 1698; died 6.4.1783, Wäyrylä, Paltamo, age 85

kara15
01-12-11, 04:05
Thank you for helping me find all this info. I thought this family stopped at my grandpa Waino, who would've guessed. :) All that's missing is Waino's mother, who we're not sure about.

BessemerFinn
01-12-11, 05:24
Was your grandfather Väinö Ilmari Mattila, who came to this country in August 1912 aboard the ship SS Empress of Ireland, going to join his uncle Sulo/Juho Mattila, RD 7, Box 2, Ogema, WI?

On FamilySearch, I found a Michigan marriage license issued on 27.4.1917, for Vaino Ilmar Mattila, age 21, a miner born in Finland; and Mary Matson, age 25, born Duluth, MN; both from Ontonogon, MI. Vaino's parents were John Mattila and May Pelto. But the license was never returned, so it's unknown if they were married.

Any chance this is your grandfather???

kara15
03-12-11, 20:16
Could be him, his middle initial is I. An article my grandfather wrote said Waino came to Ogema, WI in 1912 to stay with his uncle John Mattila. He would've been 16. As John already had a house full Waino got a job in a logging camp for the summer. John's wife is Amelia Lukkarila married 20.8.1904. Not sure on Mary Matson. Eemeli's wife is Mary but not sure on last name.

Waino's uncles were: John 1879, Juuso 1884, Eemeli 1887 and Matti 1890. He wrote on some papers he was born in Kestila, Finland (don't know why I'm writing this)

Waino's possible mothers could be: Brita Gustava 1875, Augusta, Hanna, Anna 1877 and Liisa 1881.