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Julie21
06-04-13, 03:08
Hi...my name is Julie and my paternal GG Grandfather was Erik NYHOLM B c1850 (some say Sweden /others Nykarleby Finland) Died Adelaide Hospital 22 Dec 1887 He married Emma USHER (4/7/1857 - 7/9/1937)
Cannot find a Ship's list with him arriving in Australia
They lived at Goodwood Sth Australia
Erik was a Coppersmith here in Adelaide
They had 7 children: Erik Edward; Eliza Margretta (my GGrandmother md SUMMERTON); Charlotte Elena(md Hood then Tune); Erika Mary; Eva Rose; Karl George.
After Erik's death from Cerebrospinal meningitis , Emma remarried to
Karl Edward MATTSSON born 22/8/1867 Nykarleby Finland Died 27/10/1963 Keswick Sth Australia.
According to Karl he arrived in SA on New Year's Day 1874
Karl and Emma had 4 children: Selma Corelia, Hilda Elfreda(md Crossing), Karl Edward, and Benjamin Rose.
Details have been gleaned from family members over the years and there are several versions of 'origins' for Erik NYHOLM...some say Sweden others Nykarleby Finland and I recall that it was thought that Erik Nyholm and Karl MATTSSON were either cousins or friends...and another that Karl was son of Matt MATTSSON - not sure if by natural birth or foster/adoption.
Re Karl, I do know that he was brother to
William HELLMAN of Bessemer Michigan USA ( wife Karen,daughters Ina and Elsie) as Karl travelled to see his brother there in 1947 and I have newspaper article on the trip as well as a letter in 1970 from Bessemer.

I would love to be steered in the right direction to find out how to get primary source evidence for the birthplace of Erik NYHOLM and the familial connection , if any,For him to Karl MATTSON...as well as any living relations with this wonderful bloodline in their mix.

BessemerFinn
06-04-13, 04:48
Could this be him (from Institute of Migration)...

BessemerFinn
06-04-13, 05:04
You can search Uusikaarlepyy (Nykarleby) birth records here: http://digi.narc.fi/digi/dosearch.ka?sartun=311313.KA

Julie21
06-04-13, 05:30
Thank you BessemerFinn...that record is definitely my Erik NYHOLM . It will be intersting to,know how information for that particular site is gleaned, given that sometimes, as in the LDS IGI database, some are from family members,so not always correct. I will track down the source of their information if I can.
After closing off from this posting you know what I will be doing...searching within the link you gave me. There's a most pleasurable way to spend some time. ;)
Thank you again for the much appreciated assistance. Will let you know of my findings.
Cheers

BessemerFinn
06-04-13, 05:30
And the Communion Books here: http://digi.narc.fi/digi/dosearch.ka?o=0

BessemerFinn
06-04-13, 05:52
Happy searching...and please do let me know... :)

BessemerFinn
06-04-13, 07:36
1896 Michigan Marriage Record for Matts W. Hellman, Bessemer, MI, who married Kari Peterson, also from Bessemer. Matts' parents are Matts Hellman and Anna L. Hansdotter?

The 1940 US Census has William Hellman, wife Karina, daughters Elsie and Ina; and niece Eleanora, living in Bessemer, MI

BessemerFinn
06-04-13, 15:53
Not to throw a monkey wrench into your search, but...

I found a family tree on Ancestry.com for Erik Nyholm, born 7.7.1850, "Monaby", Finland, died 22.12.1887, Adelaide, South Australia; wife Emma Usher, born 4.7.1857, Happy Valley, South Australia, died 7.9.1937, Warradale, South Australia.

I also found an obituary in the Ironwood Daily Globe for William Hellman, a pioneer resident of Bessemer, MI, who died in 1962. This William Hellman was the father of Elsie and Ina and the brother of Karl Edward (Mattsson) Hellman. The obit says William Hellman was born in Munsala, Finland. There was also another brother, John Hellman.

Also attached here is a 1963 obit for Karl Edward Mattsson, which appeared in the Ironwood Daily Globe.

Munsala was a neighboring parish of Nykarleby.

There is no Finnish parish with the name Monaby. However, the parish of Munsala had a village Monå and also Monäs, shown in Rippikirja as Monå by and Monäs by. The term "by" is Swedish for village (kylä in Finnish).

I looked through 1850 and 1851 Munsala birth records but did not see the name Nyholm associated with any Erik born during those years. HisKi shows the Nyholm name in Munsala, the earliest occurrence of which is 1866.

If Erik Nyholm was a cousin to the Hellman brothers, he may have been born in Munsala, later acquired the name Nyholm, and perhaps moved to Nykarleby.

BessemerFinn
06-04-13, 16:01
The most recent Rippikirja available for Munsala online is 1854-1860.

The village of Monå begins here: http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=9028251

And Monäs starts here: http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=9028374

Munsala birth records are here: http://digi.narc.fi/digi/dosearch.ka?sartun=317028.KA

BessemerFinn
06-04-13, 16:10
Here is the Munsala birth record for William Hellman, born Matts Wilhelm, 27.4.1870, Monäs Siik; parents Matts Johansson and Anna Lena Hansdr: http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=9035864

Julie21
07-04-13, 10:04
Oh my giddy Aunt...or rather I should say "my giddy head"!...what an absolute miner of information you are BessemerFinn! I was still processing and investigating the digi.archives you'd given the links to after midnight last night (with only 2 sightings of a NYHOLM mentioned - and not my Erik) and then when I came back from Church this afternoon there is a veritable treasure trove awaiting me...thank you so much.
Re Ancestry tree- I'm not a member and have no idea who owns that entry...but most interested in tracking them down...somehow.
Re Erik...he will be found...I am confident...not so confident in the 'family account' of he and Karl being related somehow.
Have loved looking at the newspaper clipping etc...and I had found the obit carried in the US paper for Karl but the paperr's archive site wouldn't allow me to see it all/download without joining up for a fee...so thank you.
The letter I have is from Ina and Elsie's trip here in 1970 and in it I have seen that she mentions that my Grandmother had been correct in believing that, as she wriote, "that you were right about Uncle Edward coming over (to Australia) with his
cousin Lena by boat" - so I would assume with Karl and Williams mother being 'Lena' that this Lena mentioned may be named for her...maybe. ;)
I shall spend some time going through the links you have found for me and work may have me for shorter hours as I search. I must say that I am now very much interested in learning Finnish...I did German for 4 years and find I can sort of get an idea of what some words are.
Thanks so much...again....for assisting in my search as you have...I've been greatly blessed by it all.
Cheers for now from SA

Julie21
07-04-13, 12:11
PS...Found this page on the 'net but cannot work out what it says..or if it is anything to do with 'my' Erik Nyholm...any clues? - tried to get it to translate to English but the main section won't
http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.loffe.net%2Femigration-mainmenu-59%2F3270-erik-johan-sundell-utvandrade-till-nya-zeeland

Hasse
08-04-13, 08:21
Quick and dirty xlation:
The first emigration to the inland of Australia (“New Holland”) happened in the following way: A poor, fatherless and motherless youth from the same parish – Erik Nyholm – went to Sweden for work. Over there he enlisted on a ship in Härnösand which went (on the trade route) to Australia, transporting timber. When the ship arrived at the destination – Port Adelaide – our Ostrobothnian youth absconded and went ashore – this happened in 1872 – and after many adventures he got work to the begin with at a private person’s place, later at the railway. Finally he once more reentered/began this craftmanship, which he had been doing already in his home country – being a whitesmith – later joined a government workshop where he worked with copper with which he still earns his living. The man is married to an English woman and has a nice livelihood.
Some years ago this, our emigrant, wrote a letter to a childhood friend in his home village and offered to get travel tickets for those who wished to look for earnings in Australia. This letter ignited the emigrant fewer and soon they were ready to travel, one group after the other to visit the new land on the other side of the world.

A second ostrobothnian seaman, Karl Nybonde from Oravais, found himself in the same country after having been several years in the Amur area (in Russia), working for the now deceased govenor Furuhjelm; but no other than Nybonde’s children seem to have emigrated to Australia after the initiative of Nybonde.

A third ostrobothian – Holmström – has also been living in Australia many years; but he seems to have helped only one brother and family over to Australia.

Nyström probably never will return to his homecountry. Sundell has left New Zeeland several years ago and is now a well to do farmer in his home village. His brothers and several other emigrants seemingly will return home incoming summer. They probably already have left New Zeeland.

Julie21
08-04-13, 13:12
Very interesting account...and thanks for the translation Hasse. I will go back to the original article ans see if I can find which Parish they write Erik was from prior to his move to Sweden for work. I recall family stories that there was an 'orphan' involved but it leant more towards Karl MATTSSON...I shall endeavour to dig in the records and see what I can find.
My Grandmother did say that she remembered being told that Erik's family fled during the night to Sweden...always thought it may have been a pogrom though. Emigration from Finland to Sweden...would that have required papers etc therefore a paper trail to follow?

June Pelo
08-04-13, 15:58
Here's a website that mentions Erik Nyholm in Australia:
http://sydaby.eget.net/mig/aus/adelaide.htm

Julie21
09-04-13, 00:32
Thank you June. I saw that one last night and have sent off an email to them alerting them to the error re his year and place of death...but good that there is a history of his life journey from one country to another for others to see.
I also found an article you had translated into English re the Munsala of old...very interesting...thank you .

Hasse
09-04-13, 12:18
Very interesting account...and thanks for the translation Hasse. I will go back to the original article ans see if I can find which Parish they write Erik was from prior to his move to Sweden for work. I recall family stories that there was an 'orphan' involved but it leant more towards Karl MATTSSON...I shall endeavour to dig in the records and see what I can find.
My Grandmother did say that she remembered being told that Erik's family fled during the night to Sweden...always thought it may have been a pogrom though. Emigration from Finland to Sweden...would that have required papers etc therefore a paper trail to follow?

Sorry for leaving out the parish name. I started translating from the sentence where the information about your ancestor started therefore the Munsala/Monå information was missing.

Re. "fleeing during the night" - that is somewhat difficult to speculate in - maybe conscription and the fear of spending years in the Russian army was "knocking on the door"?

The area of current Finland belonged to Emperial Russia since 1809 and they would have needed passports/papers to have the right to legally move abroad to Sweden. However people from the parish of Munsala (and other parishes in the area) have had quite good contacts over to Sweden both earlier and later and arranging for a boat trip over to Sweden probably wasn't that impossible.

Marlene33
02-10-14, 07:29
Hi,
My name is Marlene and I have only registered with this site in the last couple of days and in quickly looking at this thread, I am totally amazed at the contents. I will spend more time now going through this thread in detail but wanted to touch base.
Erik NYHOLM was my paternal great-grandfather. Julie 21 has shown that they had 7 children but my paternal grandmother was missing from the names she listed. Anna Emma was the eldest daughter of Erik & Emma. I've had little success in locating primary source evidence for Erik's birthplace as Julie had so am looking forward to now looking more carefully at this thread.
Until next time ... Marlene
I

Jalle
16-01-15, 17:39
Hi, My name is Jarl and I grew up in Monå in Munsala, outside Nykarleby in Finland. Nowadays Monå is a part of the small town Nykarleby (slightly more than 6000 inhabitants). I am a member of Monå byforskare (literally Mona Village Researchers). In Swedish we have a letter "a" with a dot on it. We meet every second week in Mona.
To Julie21 and others: We know Erik Karlsson Nyholm b. 21.7 1850 (Karlsson after his father Karl b. 20.9 1817). We can go back to Lars Larsson Rank b. 1693, perhaps a little further. But I think you Julie21 also have found out who Erik Nyholm was. I see you wrote your message a long time ago.
This is my first experience of social media so I hope I will do the right things.

Marlene33
17-01-15, 21:15
It is great to see your post Jarl and to speak to someone from the same area as Erik. He has been so hard to track back to Finland. Julie and I have been so lucky that people on this site and another similar one have been so helpful. The name changes make it so difficult.
How wonderful it would be to be part of your group in Finland. I am a member of similar groups in Australia and we all do what we can to help each other too.
I had been given information on Lars Larsson b.1693 but not with the "Rank" as part of his name. I understand Rank is the name of the farm he would be from. Is that right?
It would be wonderful to know of any earlier records before Lars birth in 1693 and there could be other records such as the death of Karl b. 1817 which I don't have so far.
I'm wondering if you are able to tell me if Erik Karlsson Nyholm had the Nyholm as part of his name back in Finland. I have seen somewhere that Nyholm could mean "new home" so wonder if this was added after he came to Australia.
As you will have seen my Sep post was the first on this site and it was only around that time that I joined the other site as well so I'm not an old hand at it either.
Marlene

Jalle
23-01-15, 06:57
A few words about Erik Nyholm (b. 1850-07-21) and his family in Mona, Finland. As far as we know only Erik took the name Nyholm ("new islet or home") and probably in Australia.
On the Ryss side we can go down to Matts Larsson Ryss (b. around 1655). His father was Lars Mattsson Ryss and grandfather Matts Andersson Ryss.
On the Rank side we can go down from Karl Eriksson Rank (b. 1817-09-20, d. 1868-05-16)) to Lars Larsson Rank (b. 1693). His wife was Elsa Karlsdotter Rank (b. 1682) of the Rank family. Her father was Karl Isaksson Rank. I hope I got all right now without tables.
Both Ryss and Rank are names of farms. When people moved from one farm to another they changed the surnames or also of other reasons.
I want to point out that we normally don´t work with genealogy. We concentrate on what has happened in the village in old times. We have published 4 books, unfortunately all in Swedish. The last one came last summer and was about emigration from Mona to America, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand with about 450 emigrants and including a photo of Erik Nyholm and his wife. Around half of the population emigrated but half of the emigrants returned. Jalle

Marlene33
02-02-15, 23:15
Thank you Jalle for posting all this detail. I find it very confusing so will need to put it onto pedigree charts to try to figure it out better.
I especially appreciate your efforts while your group don't generally work with genealogy - what a knowledge you have and I guess it helps when you can speak Swedish. Is Swedish the language still spoken in the area?
It is so confusing with the surname changes not only with generations but also when people moved from one farm to another or for other reasons. This must also mean the surname is used by so many unrelated people as well. Is this still done today?
The book about emigration from Mona sounds wonderful especially as it has a photo of Erik and Emma Nyholm. I'm thinking the photo could be one which someone has put onto a family tree on Ancestry.com. Does the book have information about the individuals as well? Was the emigration all around the same period and was it for a particular reason? I also wonder why half of the emigrants then returned.
I find this all so very interesting.
Thank you so much,
Marlene

Marlene33
07-02-15, 00:06
Jalle,
Further to my post on 03.02.15, I have realised the photo on Ancestry only shows Erik not he and Emma. I do have a photo of them which seems to be their wedding photo.
Marlene

Jalle
07-02-15, 12:44
Hi Marlene et al,
I have the family information about Greta Hansdotter and Karl Eriksson Ryss in a database on my computer if you need more information about the Finland family. But it seems that you already have a lot or all I have? In Mona people still speak Swedish, and in the whole region. Not much has changed.
I understand the old system (patronymic) with surnames seems confusing. For Greta and Karl I think the changes were like this. Greta Hansdotter Ryss took the surname Rank when she married Karl Eriksson Rank. Later they moved to live on a small piece of land, close to the beach, from the Ryss farm and both took the surname Ryss. Greta got the name Ryss for the second time! All Nordic countries had this patronymic (son = son, dotter = daughter) system, in Finland to about 1900-1920. The last patronymic could be kept as a real surname and was not changed later. The patronymic was some kind of "personal identity number" of course not unambiguous at all.
In the emigration book we mention Erik, his sister Maja Kajsa, who emigrated to Australia, his brother Johan Jakob (drowned in Sweden) and Eriks father. About Erik we wrote in the book (a broken translation): "6.19. Erik Nyholm was born 1850 on the croft in Sundet (=inlet, bay). As an adult he emigrated to Australia over Germany. He settled down in Adelaide and in 1875 he married Emma Usher (b. 1857) in the St Paul´s Church in Adelaide. They had 7 children. Erik died in 1887. The widow Emma married 1889 Karl Edward Mattsson b. 1867 in Sorvist, Nykarleby. They got 4 children. Emma died in 1937 and Edward in 1963. (Erik was the son of 6.18)".
In the emigrant book we have a photo of Erik and Emma together, a wedding photo I think. About 5 years ago a small group of people from Australia (I joined the "Mona village group" 3,5 years ago) suddenly showed up in Mona and asked about their ancestor Erik Nyholm. They got some information and went back home the next day. I think some relations were perhaps created. I can ask "my group" on Wednesday. Do you Marlene know who these people could be?
As I wrote before the emigration from Finland was very strong 100-130 years ago. In 1920 there were officially 600 inhabitants in Mona but very many of them were abroad. Now I guess Mona has about 100 inhabitants. The reason to the emigration was the hope to get a better life, also hopefully when returning to Mona. Many husbands emigrated for a few years, returned home, emigrated again after some years, returned again... Of course many husbands never returned. Also many families emigrated with the aim to stay.
The very worst years for living were 1867-68 when people could not harvest anything, the soil was frozen already in August. People were starving and most of them had no possibilities to emigrate. The peak in emigration came later when the possibilities for emigration were better of various reasons. Jalle

Marlene33
09-02-15, 00:07
Jalle,
Your post was full of very helpful information. Thank you.
I have attached a sheet I prepared with the names and dates using details from both from your posts and also from the other person who has been kind enough to send me information.
You'll notice I don't have a sister for Erik called Maja Kajsa. Do I understand correctly that she also emigrated to Australia? I would expect her surname is CARLSDOTTER - is that right? If she came to Australia I wonder what name she used here.
The detail you show for Erik and Emma Nyholm and Karl and Emma Mattsson agrees with the information that I have.
It would be wonderful if you could ask your group on Wednesday about my family and show them the sheet I have attached. It will be good to hear if I am on the "right track".
I think it is possible a person you could have met could be a second cousin of mine (one of my grandmother's brothers children). I have been in contact with him and he tells me he is going to write about the family but sadly I haven't been able to get any information from him to date. He did tell me he went to Finland and learnt of the Rank and Ryss names and also that Erik was born Erik Carlsson.
Thank you for telling me about emigration from Finland - it does help to have that background.
The photo in the book seems like the one I have a copy of but I'm not sure who gave it to me. Would the people who visited have given this photo to your group?
I'm wondering if the book you speak about is still available and if it would be possible that I could buy a copy of it. I understand it is in Swedish but would be hopeful that I would find someone who could translate it for me.
It means so much that you have taken the time to talk about my family.
Best wishes,
Marlene

Jalle
10-02-15, 10:07
Hi Marlene, I don´t know much about Eriks sister Maja Kajsa/Cajsa Karlsdotter/Carlsdotter (Maja could also stand for Maria). In 1881 she moved to a town Vasa about 40 miles south from Mona. From there I think she emigrated to Australia, perhaps to her brother? She died 1935-08-03 in N.S.W. Australia. Perhaps she can be found in records there.
Your sheet conforms what I have except for some years and dates. I attach tables for both families (if I find out have to do it). I could have it in graphical form but I haven´t used that for years and tables contain more details. I think the group in Mona doesn´t have more information but I can ask tomorrow. At least I know a woman who met the relatives from Australia when they came here. She is not a member of the group but I will call her.
Our book about emigration came out last summer and we are of course still selling it. I can send it if you want it. There is a chapter about emigrants from Rank and one about emigrants from Ryss.
Regards, Jalle

Marlene33
10-02-15, 21:12
Jalle,
Thank you for the information about Erik's sister - I will see if I can find her death in NSW, which is where I live and records are available online. It could be difficult to find her with name changes though.
It would be good to see tables for both the Ryss and Rank families. When I attached the sheet I had to work out how to do it and it is quite different to how it is done in an email. It would be good to see the different dates that you have and then it may be possible to try to confirm them from records if they are available.
It would be good to hear more after you speak to the woman who met the relatives.
I would like to receive a copy of the emigration book. I will send you my details in a private message - once I work out how to do that.
Thank you very much for your help.
Regards,
Marlene

Jalle
14-02-15, 17:37
Hi Marlene, I asked the Mona group on Wednesday if someone has more information about Karl Eriksson but the answer was no. Of course there must be more information in Finland. Two persons of the Australian group visiting Finland about 5 years ago were Neal and Cynthia Nyholm. I guess you know them.
Yesterday I sent the emigrant book to you. If I have time sometimes I could try to translate some parts. I will try to attach the Ryss and Rank family files again. Hope I have more success this time. On Monday we will go to the Canary Islands, a part of Spain but outside the coast of Africa, and stay there for one week. Jalle

Jalle
14-02-15, 17:49
Marlene. I hope I will be lucky to attach the Ryss file too. Jalle

Marlene33
14-02-15, 21:03
Hi Jalle,
Thank you so much for the Rank and Ryss files. I will print and take time to read them and hope they will make it easier for me to follow the families.
Neil Nyholm is my 2nd cousin and he is the person I thought could have been the one you spoke of. I have not been able to get any information so far from him so will have to keep trying. I have spoken to him on the phone but have never met him although I know and keep in contact with his sister. She leaves the family history to her brother and isn't able to help me much at all. Both our parents would meet when possible when they were alive but lived quite a distance from each other.
I looked in NSW records for the death of Erik's sister, Maja but wasn't able to find anything so that is something else I will have to dig deeper for.
It was very kind of you and I am very grateful for you sending the emigrant book to me and will look forward to it arriving.
I hope you enjoy your week in the Canary Islands and thank you again for your help.
Best wishes, Marlene

Julie21
15-02-15, 13:00
Hello Jalle and Marlene,

I have found my notes re Maria NYHOLM arriving in SA

Source = the Passenger Lists held in State Library of SA

1884/1 ( means 1st Ship arrival of 1884)

Ship - Pracida
Port of Origin - Hamburg
Departed - 24 October 1883
Passenger - NYHOLM, Maria. Age - 20
Occupation - Maidservant
Country of Birth - Finland
On Colonial Assisted Passage certificate
Cost of Passage =£15.10
Arrived Port Adelaide, Sth Australia - 2 January 1884

That is all the info I have on Maria and found it many years ago now but could not place her with the family, as we knew it, so put her aside...until now.
Jalle...you have her dying in Burwood NSW in 1935. Do you know where this info came from?

Feeling a little stronger within and have read your postings...most enlightening.
I hope I can help a little here and there as I get better.
Cheers and blessings

Julie

Marlene33
16-02-15, 21:42
Hi Jalle and Julie,
It's great to hear from your again Julie and good to hear you're feeling stronger. I guess you are as overwhelmed as I am with the information that Jalle has posted and appreciate the efforts just as much as I do in helping with our family.
I haven't been able to find any record of Maria (Maja) death in NSW but will keep looking. It is great that you have that record of her arriving in SA. I looked on Trove and found mention of a ship "Procida" sailing into SA but no passenger listings. I'll keep looking and it may be possible that some of the resources we have at our family history have something mentioned.
I wonder if Erik knew his sister came to Australia.
Until next time,
Best wishes,
Marlene

Julie21
17-02-15, 14:39
> Hello again Marlene and Jalle,

I thought I'd posted this in the Forum yesterday but I goofed up and it went to Hasse in Admin...who has kindly let me know and so here is what was supposed to have been here earlier...
>
My note re Maria NYHOLM's arrival in SAcwas from 1998 and I found the details in our Passenger manifests section where you can see copies of the original manifest.
> My hope is that since Maria was on 'Assisted Passage', there will be a record with details of who her 'sponsor' was etc in the State Library or State Records and that I may be able to get in there this Saturday to have a look or next week sometime. I will let you know what I have found.
>
> I had a look at NSW Deaths for a Maria NYHOLM and like you, found nothing, so then did a little 'out of the square' searching and looked at marriages for NYHOLM from 1884 to 1930 and found
>
> Marriage :
> 3368/1891 CARLSON JOHN NYHOLM MARY CENTRAL CUMBERLAND
>
> This John Carlson died in
>
> 8356/1901 CARLSON JOHN (Father) CARL (Mother) ANN C BALLINA
>
> Mary Carlson nee NYHOLM remarried in
>
> 6222/1902 MASTERS STEPHEN E CARLSON MARY C BALLINA
>
> This Mary MASTERS formerly Carlson nee NYHOLM died
>
> 17394/1935 MASTERS MARY C NYHOLM 74 YRS WAVERLEY WAVERLEY
> Burwood NSW is about a 1/2 hour from Waverley.
>
> Then I put in a Google search for 'Carlson and Nyholm, NSW' and this came up.
>
> http://stuart.scss.dyndns.info/FamilyTree/individual.php?pid=I36206&ged=Gregory-Hudson.ged
>
> It shows the Family Tree of this Mary and has her being born in 1861, which given our Maria NYHOLM was born c 1864 is 'close' in age to this Mary...
> I don't know if this is our Erik's sister Maria but just thought that 'Mary' is close to 'Maria'.
> Probably chased something not right but basically just 'exploring' possibilities as like you, couldn't find a Maria NYHOLM in the death BDM Records for NSW.
> Do you have access to NSW Passenger Lists to check if this 'Mary' nee NYHOLM came in from overseas
> as there is no Birth Record in NSW for this Mary either.
>
> I will look in the Victorian BDM records tonight to see if I can find a Maria/ Mary NYHOLM there in any way.
( Looked at Vic BDM and no luck)
>
> Let me know what you think re this info I found in NSW BDM...and if it may be worth getting the marriage cert for the CARLSON (1st marriage) to see if it gives details re her place of birth or anything that might point to a clear 'yes or no' of her being our elusive Maria or not...


Added 17 Feb 2015...Looking more into this Mary MASTERS formerly CARLSON nee NYHOLM
I found the children of both her marriages.
The interesting thing is her daughter to MASTERS, Mary Grace (b1902) married Anthony R CREIGHTON in 1924
in Burwood NSW.
Probably just a coincidence...(given Jalle said Maria nee NYHOLM died in Burwood) but just made me think maybe worth looking into this 'Mary nee Nyholm'

>
> Cheers and blessings
> Julie
>
>

Marlene33
17-02-15, 21:17
Hi Julie & Jalle,

Julie that is fantastic. At this moment I have only quickly read through so have printed it to take it all in and look more seriously at the NSW indexes. You have done a wonderful job. I had searched for all NYHOLMs as well as CARLSDOTTER, KARLSDOTTER but I think only for Maria not Mary.

I went into our family history society and checked Ancestry website where I could get an image of the emigration from Germany and will attach it here. This is only the page Maria was listed on taken from Hamburg Passenger Lists 1850-1934. What I thought was strange was a few lines above there is a Jacob and Maria RYSS.

Julie, Jalle will get a nice surprise when he returns from the Canary Islands to see what you have added. This is all so wonderful for our family.
Bye for now,
Marlene

Marlene33
18-02-15, 09:37
Hi Julie & Jalle again,

I've spent a bit of time going through Julie's last post this afternoon. It would be good if the original manifests when Maria arrived in SA had a sponsor shown on them. In case it helps Julie (although you may already have this info anyway) in case you go to the State Library or State Records to do some searching I did find State Records reference to the Official Passenger Lists 1884-1886 was GRG35/48 Consignment/Sub Series 00001, Unit 31.

You did so much better than I did with the NSW BDM records - silly me not even thinking to look for Mary and I think Jalle might have even mentioned Maja could have been Mary. I do think it was quite a surprise to find though, that the marriage you found was to John Carlson which makes me think he may be Finnish as well although Carlson is spelt with only one letter "l".

I agree that the records you found are the correct ones in all cases. I found the exact date of Mary's first marriage to John Carlson was 7 Jan 1891; John died on 16 Jul 1901 and Mary married Stephen Masters on 17 Jul 1901 - which agrees with the website you found. I found Mary's death is 7 Aug 1935 (the date on Jalle's Rank family attachment and it shows Nyholm as father's name) and Stephen Masters death was on 7 Oct 1943. All this is according to the NSW BDM records.

I checked out the website you found finding Stephen Masters family and it was a treasure. One source it refers to is a Pioneer Register from Manning Wallamba area which I am sure we have at our family history society so I will be checking that the first chance I get. It does seem though that they don't have a lot of background on Mary/Maria and her origins. The difference in her birth date is not enough to make me think we have the wrong person

I feel quite confident that this is the right person in NSW. I searched some NSW Passenger Lists and found plenty of NYHOLMs but mostly men and mostly crew on ships. I think I might order a transcription of Mary MASTERS death as it's cheaper than a certificate and can show more detail if it is noted in the registers.

I didn't get as far as checking the CARLSON and MASTERS children in the BDMs but will get to that. I did look in NSW Electoral Rolls in Ancestry and FMP but didn't find Mary at all but we have earlier ones at our family history room on microfiche. Ballina is only just over 200km away from where we live.

Another thing - On the website you found Julie, one of John and Mary's children was called John Henrik CARLSON and to me the Henrik sounds Finnish - what do you think Jalle?
A final thing I noticed on the Hamburg Passenger List I attached, I noticed the ages of the passengers listed above Maria were all from Munsala Finland and all aged between 18 and 21 so it seems Maria might have know them and their destination was Adelaide as well.

I'd better leave this for now and see what else I can find tomorrow if I get a chance.
Bye for now,
Marlene

Marlene33
18-02-15, 11:00
Hi again Julie & Jalle,
I couldn't resist and have just ordered the transcription for Mary MASTERS death and it is estimated to be about two weeks.
I must mention something strange that I found though when I went to the BDM website and searched again by Registration No. only - the result listed two people with the same registration and details except that one showed the Family Name MASTERS and the other KESTILA so the plot thickens. I had seen a similar name to this before (KESTELA) when I had searched the Ryerson Index. The transcription could give the reason for the additional name showing.
We'll just have to be patient for that bit of news.
All for tonight,
Marlene

Julie21
19-02-15, 03:24
Hi again Marlene,

Just a note re the child of John and Mary Carlson named John Henrik Carlson.
I would definitely say it points to Finnish origin our Greta Hannsdotter Ryss , mother of Erik Ryss Rank NYHOLM, had a half brother named
Johan Henrik Hansson Ryss ( John Henry, son of Hans of Ryss farm)

I am just going back into Jalle's extraordinary Ryss/ Rank family trees as I know I saw a 'CARLSSON' in one of them...
I will also see what I can find re the pedigree of John CARLSON, husband of Mary. It is a possibility that as a 26 yr old woman, she may have travelled all that way to NSW from Adelaide to go to people she knew from the Homeland, or even distant 'family' ....
Will keep you appraised of my findings...

That 'Kestila' name entry is indeed interesting...might 'Google' it too. ( Google is our best friend, says our 25 yr old daughter)
Thanks for the Ref# etc...have put in a call yesterday to State Records to ask if they have anything worth my going in to see and am waiting for a call back...but am going into State Library Saturday for a look see if all goes well with me.

Heading off to get some sourdough into the oven, so will catch you later on

Cheers and blessings
Julie

Marlene33
19-02-15, 05:29
Hi Julie,
I decided this morning to order the marriage transcription of John Carlson and Mary Nyholm as well in the hope that it also could have helpful information.

I've been entering names, dates and details into my Legacy program to see if it helps to put things into some sort of order but I find these name changes so confusing. I just had a closer look at Greta Hannsdotter Ryss's half brother Johan Henrik Hansson Ryss.

There also could be something in what you say about a 26 yr old woman travelling to NSW from Adelaide to go to people she knew from the Homeland but it also makes you wonder about why she didn't look for Erik, her brother although she would have been quite young when he left Finland too so he really was the 'big brother'.

I've had a look for John Carlson's birth in NSW without any success - can't find a John with parents Carl and Ann at all so he may not have been born here. On FMP I found John Carson who died 15 Jul 1901 was a farmer of Tintenbar NSW (near Ballina) and Mary Catherine Carlson is mentioned. I'll attach the piece cropped from the image.
I also found J Carlson listed in 1891 and 1901 Census in the same area on Ancestry but it's hard to figure out the number of people in the household. I think I'd better stop being so impatient.

I like your daughter's comment about 'Google' and my husband George agrees too.
Hope the sourdough turned out well.
I'd better do something other than "play" will this - I'm also on the hunt for the family of a great-uncle on my Mum's side of the family in Devon but those records are not to bad to follow!
Bye for now,
Marlene

Marlene33
20-02-15, 05:59
Hi Julie & Jalle,
After noticing there was a Jacob and Maria Ryss on the same Hamburg Passenger list as Maria Nyholm (my post on 18th Feb), I had wondered if there was a connection with "our" Ryss family and Mary Nyholm's Australian family (if she is "our" Maja Kajsa"). Also after Julie's last post when she mentioned Greta Hansdotter Ryss's half brother name was Johan Henrik Hansson Ryss, I thought even more about if there was a connection.

I've just entered quite a lot of the people from Jalle's Rank and Ryss Tables into my family tree program and after entered Jakob Hansson Ryss's children from the Ryss Table 13, I did a relationship check and the result is that Maria Nyholm is the 1st cousin of Maria Sofia Jungara/Sandstrom tid. Jakobsdotter Ryss and Jakob Renvall tid. Jakobsson Ryss.

There is the question though if this would be the Jacob and Maria Ryss on the ship even though their ages agree but Jakob Hansson Ryss's children, as Jalle has recorded, shows death dates although doesn't say where they died and also he notes that Maria moved to Wiscounsin.

Nowadays it wouldn't seem unusual though that a group of 8 young people from the same area (it seems) aged between 18 and 22 would make the decision to travel to another country as these people did but conditions in Finland may have given them the idea to travel to Australia but maybe some of them returned to their homeland. I can't find anyone using RYSS as a surname in NSW or SA BDM records but they may have used a different name.
It does make me wonder,
Bye for now,
Marlene

Julie21
20-02-15, 06:34
Hey Marlene and Jalle,

Eureka!
My trip into the State Records today was well worth it. I recalled that Hasse had translated quite some time ago, a Munsala newspaper article - Hufvudstadsbladet, No 87 dated 17/4/1887. I was sent this and there was a portion based on Erik NYHOLM and one part of it was this...

"Some years ago this, our emigrant, wrote a letter to a childhood friend in his home village and offered to get travel tickets for those who wished to look for earnings in Australia. This letter ignited the emigrant fewer and soon they were ready to travel, one group after the other to visit the new land on the other side of the world."

I had it in the back of my head, the thought that Maria was here whilst her brother Erik was alive...and so I thought he may have 'sponsored' her voyage...and he did.
In fact, I found that our Erik NYHOLM sponsored fourteen people to emigrate from Finland to South Australia...one group on the Pracida voyage of 1883 (84/1) and the other on the Catania voyage 1884 (84/6)
Here are the 2 groups...
PRACIDA 1883 Group - Source = Colonial Assisted Passages Vol 2... State Archives SA

NYHOLM ; Anna ( which turns out to Lo and behold be our Maria/Mary...so many name changes for 1 lady!).
20 Yrs Maidservant. CAPassage # 4652
RYSS ; Jakob 18 yrs Labourer CAP # 4922
RYSS ; Maria 22 yrs M/servant CAP # 4992 (on same Certificate as her brother)
ERIKSSON; Erik J 21 yrs Carpenter CAP# 4896
ERIKSSON; Matt ( I forgot to note age) CAP# 5205
JOHANSSON; Johan 21 yrs Carpenter CAP#4897

NORDMAN; Anders 16 yrs Farm Labourer CAP#4653
NORDMAN; Susanne 20 yrs M/servant Same CAP#
NORDMAN; Anne 19 yrs M/Servant Same CAP#
PETH; Louisa 19yrs M/Servant CAP#4443

'CATANIA' Group followed PRACIDA

NYMAN; Erik ( forgot to note age) CAP#5204
NYMAN; Isak (forgot.................) CAP# 5334
HIRT, Anna L ( ". "). CAP# 4152
SUND; Anders Wilhelm 20 yrs Labourer CAP # 5239.

The original Certificates are unfortunately long ago destroyed...at least we have all of the above.
I actually jumped up and down when I found them...��

I must rush off now to get tea dished up for hubby to get to work but will keep trawling for more of anything I can think of.
Cheers and blessings

Julie

Julie21
20-02-15, 06:40
Hey again with a quick thing Marlene....

There are RYSS on the Victorian Elect Roll...I quickly saw on Ancestry last night but not a member...so maybe try there.
Vic BMD online was offline this morning so couldn't look...will tonight.
Also...
Ellis Island Immigration listing has a
RYSS, Maria Wisconsin on their list...but it was WAY past midnight when I saw it...so will re-visit tonight.
Off for tea ��

Marlene33
20-02-15, 21:04
That is absolutely fantastic! You sure hit gold Julie. I've got goose-bumps!

I've got Vic BDMs on my laptop so can check them for Ryss - I did look in SA & NSW with no success. I did notice Ryss on Electoral Rolls too but didn't look too closely so will go there again.

Jalle had shown in his table that Maria Ryss had gone to Wisconsin too.

Julie I would love to live closer to Adelaide - we would have so much fun looking into this together - maybe more than we are now. You have probably been digging into this family longer and deeper than I have and it is so good to see these results.
I'll be back!
Marlene

Marlene33
21-02-15, 01:57
Hi Julie & Jalle,

I've been checking what I can this morning after reading Julie's amazing find. I had read the Munsala newspaper article before but had forgotten what it said about Erik NYHOLM and also what was on the Sydaby site (noted by June Pelo in Apr 2013) where it mentions he was likely he was involved in the Finns on the Pracida and another ship. I can remember my excitement after attending a workshop on immigration when I 'Googled" "immigration Finland to Australia" or similar and I was so excited when I found the Sydaby site - I didn't have any success when I contacted the Migration Museum and someone else to try to get the detail that Erik died at Burwood in 1935 corrected (wrong Erik).

The information you recorded at State Records, Julie, is great. I've been searching on Ancestry and FMP and elsewhere this morning without a great amount of success. I need to go to our society to check their Ancestry World Sub. to see detail of "Catania".

In Ancestry, I found 2 entries only for Ryss in Victorian Elect. Rolls : 1963 Toorak Subdivision, Fawkner District:
Anna RYSS, 1 Leighton Court, Home duties, F
Jan RYSS, 1 Leighton Court, Director, M
There were no entries in FMP at all.

From Victorian BDM CDs I have, all I found for Ryss was:
Jan Josef RYSS Death, Father and Mother unknown, at Caulfield, aged 59 in 1974, Reg. No. 5735; and
Jane RYSS married Charles Herbert KNEALE at Ballarat in 1911, Reg. No. 7918, Jane’s birthplace was Miners Rest. I found another entry for the marriage which had originally shown Jane's name as RUSS, RYSS was a revised entry.

The Funeral Notice for Mary KESTELA (Masters) shows “late of Cabarita”, which is fairly close to Burwood. Her funeral was on Thurs. 8 Aug 1935 according to the newspaper entry, going to Rookwood Cemetery by road - Church of England Cemetery Section 12. I remembered I had the Cemetery CD so searched for Mary Kestela/Kestila/Masters burial with no success at all, in fact there were no Kestela or Kestila and no Masters surname in 1935 at all. There are other Soc. of Aust. Genealogists CDs I will check at Family History when I get in there.

I think I need to leave this for a while as I'm quite disheartened with my results after Julie's Eureka moment - I would have jumped up and down like she did.
And how about Maja/Maria/Mary being listed on the Pracida as Anna - which was my grandmother's name, Erik's daughter, Anna Emma who sadly I never was to meet as she died the year I was born.
Until next time,
Marlene

Julie21
21-02-15, 23:30
I have yet another form taken on Friday for the Migration Museum to have them correct the date and place of death for Erik...after a phone call, email and a form already put in within the last 2 years.
Maybe this time they will get around to it :)

You've done well with finding things Marlene that I couldn't. Don't be disheartened...just have a few cuppas and a breather and maybe do a little of something else and you may find that something will just 'come to you'....it's worked for me in the past. Sometimes too much info at one time can be daunting as it gets jumbled up with all the other info.
The other thing is to remember...our ancestors aren't going anywhere...they'll still be there waiting to have info found on them be it today, tomorrow or next year :)

I've been doing this for over 20 years and sometimes just have to step back from one area for a bit to see things a bit clearer.
Cheers and blessings
Julie

Marlene33
22-02-15, 07:45
Thanks for your kind words and encouragement Julie - you're right our ancestors are going nowhere.

I needed to collect our Family History mail and memberships (I'm both secretary and membership secretary) so I went into our room this afternoon and looked in the Manning Wallamba Pioneer Register which was a source given in the family tree you found online for the Masters family Julie. I scanned the relevant entry - the part under Mary's 2nd husbands parents says:
"Child 8 Stephen Edward b 15 Feb 1867 Jones Is., d 1943, bur. Rookwood Cemetery, m. 17 Jul 1902 Ballina CARLSON, Mary Catherine nee ?."
Something I should have done was see if it showed who supplied the information (will check next time in) - whoever it was didn't have the info on Mary anyway.

I also looked at Ancestry for Procida and Catania in Hamburg Immigration records: I have saved copies of the 3 pages listed passengers on both relevant voyages but haven't looked at them in detail yet. I will type out the information on the people who Erik sponsored that you listed Julie as on a quick check, it seems to vary a bit.
If I don't get it done tonight, will do it tomorrow.

I hope you have some success with the Maritime Museum this time Julie so hopefully they can get the detail corrected on the website but it does look like quite a while since the site was updated.

I started this genealogy journey very late in 2003 so I've got a way to go to catch up with you Julie.
Must sign off for now.
Marlene

Julie21
22-02-15, 08:10
I don't have Ancestry but Googled 'KESTELA, NSW' and came up with the 1st 3 on Ancestry...

Sands Directories of Sydney & NSW...Mrs M KESTELA - Residence 1931 Cabarita

On NSW Unassisted Passengers Lists 1826-1922 M KESTELA ( I can't get any more info)

NSW Police Gazette ( Convict,Criminal, Land & Wills) Joseph KESTELA. Residence - 7 June 1922...this Joseph died in State Penitentiary , Redfern, 1925 aged 65 .

NSW State Records...Western Syd Records Centre) Probate
Mary Catherine KESTELA
Date of death. 17/8/1945
Granted 24/5/1964
Item # -Series 4 313615
( sounds like there may have been a bit of a battle with granting probate in this case as it went for 20 yrs!)


I look forward to the Certificate findings re Masters/KESTELA etc.
There is a Kestela family from Finland...from Family Search.org Baptisms in Ikaalinen, Turku Port parish.

Marlene33
22-02-15, 08:51
Hi again Julie & Jalle,
We've had our tea so all is well. I thought I'd look at the images and do the list now.
On the Passenger Lists it lists some of them on the opposite ship to the records Julie found and I can't hind Isak NYMAN at all on either ship.

On the Procida list it shows:
NORDMANN, Anders 16 yrs; NORDMANN, Susanna 20 yrs; NORDMANN, Anna 18 yrs; ERICKSSON, Erick Joh (?) 21 yrs; JOHANSSON, Johann 21 yrs; RYSS, Jacob 18 yrs; RYSS, Maria 22 yrs; HVIT, Anna 20 yrs (definitely looks like a ‘V” and in one of the BDM indexes I was looking at yesterday I did see a HVIT surname); PETH, Louisa 19 yrs; and NYHOLM, Maria 20 yrs
It shows all their residences as Munsala except for Maria NYHOLM it shows Wasa.

On the Catania list it shows: Residence for them all is shown as Munsala
SUND, Anders Wilhelm 20 yrs (surname looks a bit like Lund and I did see it taken as that in a transcription yesterday); NYMAN, Erik 29 yrs (I think or could be 27); ERIKSSON, Matt 28 yrs;
There was another family of HOLNSTROM (?) – looks like husband, wife and 3 children also from Munsala.

I think that was all the people from Finland on both ships who arrived in South Australia.
The lists also included passengers disembarking elsewhere so tomorrow if any of them were from Finland.

That's all for now,
Marlene

Marlene33
23-02-15, 21:26
Hi Julie & Jalle,
I'd skipped past Julie's post with results from her KESTILO searches.
I just checked Ancestry and in Unassisted Passengers, this is an M Kestilo who seems to be crew on each voyage as a cook and seaman.
On NSW Electoral Rolls, there is a Mary Kestilo in the 1930s who is at the same address as on Sands Directory living with Matti Kestilo - so she sounds the wrong person.
It looks like we might need to wait and see if the death certificate details to see if we have the right Mary.

I had another look at the Procida and Catania Passenger Lists yesterday and found I had missed a double sided page for the Procida but there were no more passengers from Finland.
On the Catania, the other Finnish family who left the ship in Adelaide were Holmstrom and there were 2 more passengers from Finland getting off in Melbourne but they weren't from Munsala.
Erik Nyman was 29 but I couldn't find an Isak Nyman anywhere.
I won't attach the passenger lists at this stage. The one I put on before included Mary NYHOLM and Maria and Jacob RYSS but if the pages with the other records would be of value, please let me know.

It's breakfast time so until later ...
Marlene

Julie21
24-02-15, 01:41
Morning Marlene ,
I was doing some thinking on the M Kestela - Masters thing and I have a hunch it may be that our Mary Masters may have been living 'de-facto' with Matti Kestilo/Kestela ? Hence the both entries/names for the one person.
My maternal grandmother died under the name of Hennitschky having never legally married this man, but the death was also found in the register under Ludlow, her maiden name...totally missing her only legal married name of Synnett.

I found this entry in the online State Records NSW the other night;
KESTILA, Matte of Baulkham Hills
Occupation - Retired Mariner
Date of death - 29/09/1930
Date Duty paid - 25/03/1931
Affidavit only
Item # Pre A 056356 (20/1525)

Am so looking forward to the KESTELA (Masters) Certificate hopefully clearing the muddy waters!

I will have another look at the copies of the original Ships Lists on Friday at the State Library for Isak Nyman who was listed in the Colonial sponsored Certificate paperwork and let you know if he's listed 'on board'


Off to feed the chooks then Dentist...the former is far more enjoyable than the latter, and less expensive!
Cheers and blessings
Julie

Marlene33
24-02-15, 05:06
Hi Julie,
What you say about the Kestela relationship is possible so not worth discounting (as I more or had was thinking) and with the experience you had with your grandmother does bear thinking about.
Possibly Matte KESTILA was a mariner on ships from travelling to Australia with Finnish crews and that is how he met Mary and the ship could have called into SA as well as NSW and he could have been the M Kestila we saw on Unassisted Passenger lists. Interesting ..... and like you I'm anxious for the certificate to come (ordered early last Thursday so maybe by the end of next week).
I agree chook feeding sounds preferable to the dentist.
Good luck on Friday at the Library.
Bye for now,
Marlene

Marlene33
25-02-15, 03:55
Hi Julie,
I wasn't going to look into the MASTERS/KESTILA thing anymore but I put Stephen Edward Masters name into Ancestry and came up with an entry in a NSW Police Gazette in 1915 which could help towards explaining why Mary was with the Kestila fellow and she could be our Mary. Stephen deserted Mary - I'll attach the detail I copied from the Gazette.
I will dig further in Electoral Rolls if I can for both Stephen and Mary but this could be a reason Mary was with Matte Kestila and took his name.
That's it for now,
Marlene

Julie21
27-02-15, 08:21
Hello Marlene,
Now it is my turn to say, "Wow!"...certainly an interesting find and one I think "yes", points further to the strong possibility of Mary taking up with Matte Kestela in a de facto marriage.
"The plot thickens..." as they say ��

Been on the 'sick list' past few days so solo trip to check out the Ship List not possible...but as I know, it's not going anywhere. Will get there when I'm better. Sitting and resting atm...so behaving.
Cheers and blessings
Julie

Marlene33
27-02-15, 22:55
Hi Julie,
It's looking more like we've got the right person. I searched Trove and found a Sydney Morning Herald death notice for Matt Kestila showing "dearly loved husband of Mary Kestila".
Bring on those certificates! I've been busy with gardening now we've finally had a bit of fine weather (had a very wet February) and also had family history society jobs which must be done. I'd rather be "playing".

Sorry to hear you've been on the sick list so hope you're soon feeling improved.

I'm wondering if Jalle has returned from his trip and wonder about his feelings on what we've been up to.
Bye for now,
Marlene

Julie21
28-02-15, 02:05
Morning Marlene,
Please send us some rain! We had a total of 0.4ml last night...our grand total for Feb...and with some days of 42c....we are dry,dry,dry. Thank goodness we have tanks that are pretty full to use on the veg plots and pot plants .

I hadnt seen the Matt Kestela notice...does add I think to our case for being on the right track...but then...I found this on Trove...
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article160430558

which muddies the water again...a little, but I still think we are right.
Points for us are that it states :
he's survived by a stepson and stepdaughter ...being presumably John Henrik CARLSON and Ida Charlotte Foster ( nee Carlson)

and re his wife preceding him in death...did not say "his loving wife"...


Point against is the time frame of the info on his wife's death, being "...15 yrs before",
which would make it c1928.
Of course, this last would have come from a relative so could count for the difference in year of her demise.

I find it funny how there is no mention of being survived by the daughter of Stephen Edward Masters and Mary K Masters, Mary Grace, born Ballina 1902 , who died as Mary Creighton in 1981

So many things that keep us thinking of the possibilities...until hopefully the certificates in-muddy it all.

Cheers and blessings
Julie
I have to learn how to put in 'thumbnails' from my IPad. I can do it usually on other forum but that's via the PC. Always something new to learn

Marlene33
02-03-15, 21:21
Hi Julie & Jalle,
What a day yesterday was - the book arrived in the mail from Jalle and the transcriptions arrived. Thank you so much Jalle - now I'm anxious to get some translating done and also arrange a trip to Adelaide to show Julie (not sure when though).

I feel certain the Mary Catherine NYHOLM who married John CARLSON then Stephen MASTERS, then became known as Mary KESTILA is our Maja.

The information on the Marriage transcription is disappointing:
Mary NYHOLM, Spinster, Birthplace not listed, Occupation Farmer, Age not listed, Usual Residence Hyde Park, Rookwood, Parents not listed. Witnesses Laura Dunlop and Harold Dunlop, Minister H. Dunlop. The bride signed with her mark. Married 7th Jan 1891 at St. Stephen's Church, Rookwood (Church of England). John CARLSON, Bachelor, Birthplace not listed, Occupation Farmer, Age not listed, Usual Residence Tintenbar, Richmond River, Parents not listed.
It seems strange that Mary's occupation is shown as a farmer so I'll do some digging to see if Hyde Park may have been a farm at Rookwood where she was living and working. I had found something on Ancestry I think of John Carlson being a farmer at Tintenbar before their marriage - could have been a rare census record that was available - will look further.

The Death transcription has so much information:
Mary Catherine MASTERS known as KESTILA, died 7 Aug 1935 at Delaware Hospital, Waverley, late of Burwood. Old age pensioner, 74 years old, Father: NYHOLM, Father's occupation: Gunsmith, Mother not listed. Informant was Christina Tyrrell, daughter. Born Vasa, Finland. Time in Colony: 3 yrs South Australia, 47 years New South Wales. Married (1) Sydney, (2) Ballina, age at marriage (1) 27, (2) 39, Spouse (1) John CARLSON, (2) Stephen Edward MASTERS. Children: (1) Ida C 43 yrs, Anna C 37 yrs, John H. 35 yrs, all living, (2) Mary G. 34. Buried 8 Aug 1935, Church of England Cemetery, Rookwood.
I hadn't heard of an occupation for Erik and Mary's father before and Vasa being shown as birthplace could have been what the informant thought it was from details Mary had given her. I'll do some checking to see if I can find where Christina Tyrrell comes into the family - could be Matti Kestila's daughter?

Getting back to your last post, Julie - sorry we haven't been able to send some of our rain your way. I was speaking to a cousin in Broken Hill and they too are desperate for rain with their water supplies a real problem. We're lucky we haven't had the high temperatures here - just humidity.

The newspaper report you found for Stephen MASTERS is interesting, especially mentioning the stepson and stepdaughter and not Mary Grace. Makes you wonder if the desertion in 1915 could have been a reason. More digging needed there. I couldn't get access to this Forum yesterday or would have commented on this then.

Now is time for even more investigating I think on these family connections.
I think it's time for my breakfast now so I can finish off yesterday's overflow of jobs and do some digging.
Marlene

Marlene33
02-03-15, 22:06
I couldn't help myself, I've just done a bit of quick digging.
1. Christina Tyrrell is listed on 1930 Electoral Roll with James Tyrrell.
2. Hyde Park at Rookwood was a farming area - found on Wikipedia - now the area where Rookwood Cemetery is.
3. Found a Legal Notice for Mary Catherine Kestila in Sydney Morning Herald in 1946 - showing Anna Christina Tyrrell as Executrix of her Will.
Bye again,
Marlene

Marlene33
02-03-15, 22:27
This will be the last post until I get more other things done - it seems Christina Tyrrell could be Hannah C Carlson, shown on Mary's death transcription as Anna C. There was an Anna Christina Carlson married a James Tyrrell in 1944 but as informant Christina was already called Tyrrell. I found a death notice listed on Ryerson Index of Anna Christina Tyrrell 92 yrs in 1990 which is the right age for Hannah C.
Complicated and confusing but who knows with this family with so many name changes, etc.
Another thing I thought, maybe Mary NYHOLM moved from SA to NSW in about 1887 (3 yrs after her arrival) as her brother Erik had died. You wonder if that was the case if any of Erik's family had contact with her in SA. If only we could go back and talk to them.
Must go this time,
Marlene

Julie21
06-03-15, 14:09
Hey Marlene...and Jalle,
I found this whilst Googling 'Hans Henrik Hansson Ryss 1798'....my 4x Great Grandfather ...1 less 'Great' for you.
It was in reply to a query from another Member of the Forum, Karen Jonson...
( Ryss family from Solf, Finland by Karen Monson - Posted Aug 2003)...Thread is now Closed

[Quote Originally Posted by June Pelo ] - in reply to this original post of Karen Monson...
" I have a Hans Henrik Hansson Ryss, b. 1798, married to Anna Jakobsdotter Räf from Munsala. Their descendants changed their name to Renvall. I don't have any further data."


Then this reply from Roy Lager/Lagger...Posted back in Oct 2007...

June ,
Hans Henrik Hansson Ryss, b. Aug. 27, 1798, Ryss, Monå, Munsala, married c, 1819, Anna Jakobsdotter Räf, b. Jan 5, 1798, Röf, Kantlax, Munsala. They had 3 children, Greta, Anders and Jakob, b. 1833, d. 1910,, m. Beata Mattsdotter Sundqvist. Hans was also married to Kajsa Eriksdotter Knuts.
Hans is my third cousin Denis William Laggar's 3rd cousin 5 times removed, who all live in Durban, South Africa. He lso had many relatives in Astoria, OR and there sre many Renvall relatives in this Släkt

Roy Lager (Lagger)

**************************
So...it looks like we have ( presumably) living relations ��
I noticed that neither of the original posters have been posting for quite some years but will send off a PM to each re this and see what happens.
I like the fact that once again there is a 'decision' by those gone before us to 'change their last name'... Why !!!???

BessemerFinn
07-03-15, 15:05
Obit for Victor L Hellman

Marlene33
10-03-15, 21:05
Hi all,

I haven't had much time to do a lot recently and still have a busy schedule for the rest of this week but took a bit of time out and followed Julie's example and did a Google search for Erik Nyholm Mona Munsala (from memory) and found a post on Loffe.net which to me looks like an Obituary for Erik in 1888. I have attached the images. Of course translation is a problem so it would be great if anyone was able to assist with this. It looks to the newspaper article which Hasse helped out with translating back in 2013.

After reading Julie's find in the post from Karen, I searched Ancestry family trees and found Hans Henrik Hansson Ryss in a tree as well as many others in our family so I have sent a message and hope to receive a reply which could lead to living relatives. I did also see (maybe elsewhere) mention of the people shown in Roy Lager/Lagger's post.

So many of the names which have been coming up are included in the tables posted by Jalle and are also in the Emigration book.

Must fly, another busy day planned so I'm hoping next week to get more time to devote to the mysteries which need unravelling. I might order Erik's sister, Mary's both husbands death transcriptions to see if they can fill in some gaps in the story.
Until then,
Marlene

June Pelo
10-03-15, 21:49
I sent Roy Lager's address to Julie so she can contact him about Ryss per the old discussion on the Forum a number of years ago. I assume she has made contact with Roy.

Marlene33
11-03-15, 00:04
Hi all,

I was just showing a fellow researcher at our Family History Society (I'm on duty today) the newspaper article from Loffe.net and found there was an additional section of the article I missed so I have attached the image now. I also noticed I could translate the forum pages from the Google Search so have resaved the heading.

June, I'll look forward to hearing more from Julie from contact with Roy.
Thank you all,
Marlene

Julie21
11-03-15, 00:23
I sent Roy Lager's address to Julie so she can contact him about Ryss per the old discussion on the Forum a number of years ago. I assume she has made contact with Roy.

I sent Roy an email that same day but as yet have not had a reply. Given the years gone since his last posting he may very well 'be over' family history or not in the best of health, so I won't push him for a reply.

Marlene33
12-03-15, 20:48
I haven't had any response from the person I sent a message to on Ancestry either.
Marlene

Marlene33
07-04-15, 06:28
Hi Jalle, Julie and all,

I have spent some time attempting to do some translating using Google Translate as I haven't so far been able to catch up with the local person who may be able to help me.

I have done work both on sections of the Emigration book which Jalle's group has written as well as Erik Nyholm's Obituary from the 1888 newspaper and have had some success - enough to get the drift of the contents of both of them.

In regard to the book, can anyone please translate the title on the front cover "Sendtjyyvon". After reading the section referring to Erik's father Karl, I was so moved to see that Karl died of starvation and his wife Greta from typhoid - both in 1868. I read online about the famine affecting Finland around that time and it is understandable that so many people moved away.

There are several words that I haven't been able translate from the newspaper obituary, but there is enough so that I can get make some sense of the contents and it makes me so proud that Erik was my great-grandather and was so affected by his earlier days in Finland that he did his utmost to help his fellow countrymen and it seems he was held in high regard by many.

If anyone would like me to post the translation I have (including words I have had no success with), please say and I would be happy to do it.

Jalle
16-05-15, 20:40
Hi after several months. I haven't taken part in the discussions since February or I have not been able to do it of many reasons, sorry for that. I am busy in different projects, I am still working on the farm and I have a common illness for old men and the treatment (radiation) will start in 2 weeks. I don't know if I have had something to comment on but today I have tried to go through unread information and a part is still unread.
- We knew that Maja Kajsa Nyholm b. 1863 emigrated to Australia. I think the information came from a genealogy book about the Ryss family written by Bertel Nyholm. Bertel 1924-99, I knew him well, is not related to the Nyholm family in Australia. Nyholm is a common name here. But he was married to Margit Renvall b. 1926, still alive, of the Ryss family. She doesn't live far away from Monå. Her brother is in the "Monå village group" and lives in Monå. A twin brother died some years ago. Both brothers met the visitors here from Australia some years ago. I will borrow the book from the library again and check what it says about Maja Kajsa.
- Marlene, you mentioned Jacob and Maria Ryss. I didn't find your reference but I can guess and I am pretty sure about them. When we speak about the Ryss family in Monå we think about Jacob Ryss (since 1921 Renvall) 1865-1923 and Maria Ryss (1871-1957). I remember Maria very well, I was 13 y when she died. These were the grandparents to the Renvall siblings mentioned above. Jacob´s father Jakob Hansson Ryss 1833-1910 was a sister to Greta Hansdotter Ryss 1820-1868 (Erik Nyholm´s mother).
- I am very impressed what you have found out about Erik´s sister Maja Kajsa or Mary Catherine in Australia. I think her birth date 1863-08-03 is right but I can check it.
I have to stop reading for tonight but I hope I can continue reading your comments on this site tomorrow too.
Regards, Jalle 

Jalle
18-05-15, 20:18
Hi Marlene and Julie, About the word "Sendtjyyvon". It is or was a word in the old local Monå dialect. The word was taken as a burden for books published (4 pieces so far) by the Monå group. The word disappeared in the dialect when the (combine) harvesters came to the village. In old times, still in the forties and fifties, the sheaves had to be dried before they were treshed. A barn of timber/logs was heated and the sheaves were sent up for drying to a shelf by use of a pitchfork for this special use called "sendtjyyvon".
About Mary and John Carlson´s son John Henrik 18.02.15 (I am still in Feb and try to read your comments): Yes Marlene, Henrik is a Swedish name and common here in the Swedish speaking parts of Finland along the coast and it is used in the Ryss family. I checked on my computer but I didn´t find a John Carlson / Johannes Karlsson from Monå emigrating to Australia but I don´t have them all. But I found emigrants from Monå arriving to Australia in 1884 as Mary. For instance: Erik Samuelsson Knuts Nyman 1854-1929 (number 5.45 in our emigrant book) and Matts Eriksson Klockars b. 1851 (10.42). Mary must have known them although they perhaps didn´t come with the same ship.
Kestila, Kestilä is a Finnish name.
Forget what I wrote about Jacob and Maria Ryss two days ago. I didn´t know what the question was and gave of course the wrong answer.
I try to continue with Feb tomorrow night. Regards, Jalle.

Marlene33
21-05-15, 06:52
Hi Jalle,
It's great to hear from you again Jalle - we've been pretty quiet since our main bursts in Feb and Mar. My husband, George & I have been painting inside our house - had intended doing it when I retired from work almost 7 yrs ago and should have done it sooner as we're finding it exhausting. We're over half way now so on the "home run". I have a few family history society things on over the next week that must be done and then back to finishing the painting, so I might be a while before posting much more or doing more chasing up. I have written about "My Erik" to go into our society's journal due out 1st June. Erik & Emma's photo which is in the book will be on the front cover.
I have quickly read through both of your posts and you make some very interesting comments, etc. When I get on top of my backlog and back to my research I'll go through the posts again in more detail and check more of the people against the book. One of the places we found MaKestila (I think a shipping record) showed that he was born Finland but don't think it said where. From things we found, it does seem so much that our Maja found so much comfort in people from her homeland -we won't give up our search for her family in Australia.
Thank you for your explanation of the book title - from memory I had translated the bit underneath as Book 4. I've got all my notes, etc. put away at the moment to keep them safe and away from sanding dust and paint.
I can't wait to get back to all this again but it'll will be a good reason to get through the other jobs as quickly as I can. I'll have to refresh my memory when I get back to this and also to what we've included in the posts.
I do hope the radiation is effective without too many side effects - my thoughts are with you. It's wonderful your back and I'll keep an eye out for more of your comments.
All the best Jalle,
Marlene

Jalle
21-05-15, 20:59
Hi Marlene and Julie, I am still reading what you wrote in Feb. Perhaps I should start from the other end.
One thing I don´t understand among many other things. I mentioned last week Bertel Nyholm´s book about the Ryss family. I thought I got the information about Maja Kajsa´s emigration from that book. I borrowed the book again from the library and in the book is nothing about emigration to Australia. From where came the information about the emigration? When the visitors from Australia came to Finland and asked about Erik N no one in Monå knew what had happened to Erik after he left to Sweden. People in Monå believed he had died there. And no one knew about Maja Kajsa going to Australia. Bertel Nyholm says Maja Kajsa moved to a town Vasa in 1881. Vasa is only 65 km south from Monå.
Is it possible that the Australian visitors already knew that Maja Kajsa had come to Australia when they came to Monå? Otherwise it is still a mystery that we wrote in our book that also Maja Kajsa had emigrated.
I remember I warily explained last winter that the family in Monå was starving and the parents died. We have a document telling that "through a public note given by the priest on 17th of May 1873 the children were auctioned for five years to the lowest bidder". I think the parish paid for the children. The same day their small house was also sold. A very sad story.
In the message from 20.2 I see that Julie solved the problem with Jacob and Maria Ryss. You must be right. Jacob Ryss 7.1.1865-10.7.1923 and his sister Maria1861-1896 came to Australia. I mentioned Jacob and his wife by mistake earlier so Jacob came back to Finland. I hope I am not wrong this time. Jacob has 5 grandchildren in this area so I will ask some of them tomorrow if they have heard that grandfather went to Australia. I guess not because Jacob died before the grandchildren were born.
I try to leave Feb behind me. Best regards, Jalle

Marlene33
23-05-15, 23:27
Hi Jalle & Julie,
It will probably take a while to catch up on the heap we posted in Feb & since. I'll have to re-read it all too when I get back to it.
I'll try to contact the 2nd cousin who went to Finland when I get a chance (unless Julie has) but I think if his sister who I saw last year knew, I'm sure she would have said. I'm pleased you included the information about Maja dying in Australia though as otherwise we wouldn't have known to search for her and find the proof of it.
What you have in the document about the children being auctioned is just awful but shows just how difficult things were - worse than we today could ever imagine.
It would be so good to hear if any of Jacob's grandchildren knew of his voyage to Australia and what might have happened here but I suppose it depends how much was passed down through the generations.
Must get more other jobs done (& the painting finished) so I can get back to this. We had a family history seminar here yesterday with a speaker about Scottish research (don't seem to have any Scottish ancestors though, only my husbands) - the speaker's husband is of German origin. I had a quick chat to her right at the end and mentioned Erik and how helpful you have been and she was excited for me.
Must go,
Thanks for the good work again Jalle,
Marlene

Jalle
25-05-15, 20:58
Hi Marlene and Julie,
I have talked to some of Jacob Ryss´ (b. 1865) grandchildren but no one has heard that Jacob emigrated to Australia. But he was on the list together with other young people from Munsala so I think he emigrated.
On my computer I have a folder for every farm in Monå in old times, documents I saved when we worked with the emigrant book. Last night I checked the Ryss family again. I had scanned some pages from the church book, or what someone had written down from the church book for the years 1880-90. There I found:
- Maria Sofia Ryss (b. 1861), left to Australia in 1883
- Erik Nyholm b. 21.7 1850, d. in Australia 1881 (should be 1887 but 7 can be interpreted as 1)
So it is very, very likely that at least Maria Sofia emigrated. She had time to spend years in Australia before she came back to Finland and emigrated to America in 1891 (likely together with her husband, or becoming husband).
At least the priest knew that Erik was lucky and could go from Sweden to Australia and that he died in Australia. But in Monå this information seems to have been lost during generations. /Regards Jalle

Marlene33
31-05-15, 09:40
Hi Jalle & Julie,
I'll have to do some more searching in Ancestry and Findmypast for Jacob and Maria Ryss to see if I can find info on them leaving Australia again - they were on the list of passengers coming here.
It's a shame the grandchildren don't know more though.
No more news at the moment,
Regards from Marlene