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Gita Wiklund
09-02-04, 23:00
This is a very nice site, check it out! Lots of wonderful pictures

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/empire/


Gita:)

granskare
10-02-04, 03:28
Wonderful Gita!

Great to read about what this guy did a 100 years ago.
I think maybe I shall take my old black and white images and try to make a color out of them. Hmm, well, maybe have grandson mess around with it:)

Chuck

Gita Wiklund
10-02-04, 09:23
Hi Chuck!

Do that! Then post them here at forum for us all to enjoy!
(Im not sure I understand exactly how this was done, but I guess Id understand better if it was presented in my own langage) :)

D.Frilund
11-02-04, 17:59
Fantastic pictures!

..Well, I don't believe that anyone could make full color
pictures out of black and white photographs,
unless you start to paint them with color...
(if someone had invented a method to do it,
I think we all should know it by now).
Excuse me if I spoil all you enthusiasm, maybe I'm too doubtful.
(Maybe someone is inventing it right now)

There is on that site an archive of photos too, type a searchword
and you will find more pictures in black and white of the same photographer and you can also load high resoution pictures of the three black and white 'negatives'(red,green,blue). Then, if you have a good picture editing program with layers(Photoshop or Paintshop), you can make color pictures of them.

The search:
(type for example the word 'finland' and look at the pictures!)
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/pp/prokquery.html

Tells someone who tried...:cool:

Gita Wiklund
11-02-04, 20:09
Since you are a photographer Im sure you know what youre talking about. But I dont think Ive ever seen painted pictures that look so realistic in colour.
So, could you explain to me how to digitally turn my own black and white pictures into realistically coloured like those?

Gita

kpaavola
11-02-04, 22:54
I went back to the website to verify what I thought after reading it the first time.

It isn't so simple as to turn OUR existing black and white negatives to color photos. Looking back at the website, it says the man originally took 3 successive photos but using a red filter, a blue filter and then a green filter, resulting in 3 different negatives.

Then it continues that using those 3 filtered black and white photo negatives and today's software, it is possible to color the original black and white into colored photos. The website goes into details about how the original man did it with overhead projectors or something of that sorts.

I thought it would be fun to do as well, but upon further investigation it doesn't seem to be so simple. I'm sure it is still possible to do but would require some level of expertise with the photo software to colorize a black and white photo.

Gita Wiklund
11-02-04, 23:57
It isn't so simple as to turn OUR existing black and white negatives to color photos. Looking back at the website, it says the man originally took 3 successive photos but using a red filter, a blue filter and then a green filter, resulting in 3 different negatives

Thats what I thought. But it seems like Frilund doubt the method described - "if someone had invented a method to do it,
I think we all should know it by now", so I wonder how he think it was done - it surtainly doesnt seem to me as if they have handcolored the pictures. Or have I misunderstood Frilund?

granskare
12-02-04, 00:17
Well Kevin,

All of us were planning on giving this a try and likely would have been triumphant because we didn't know it could not be done but you have put the kaibosh on it
There go my experiments in timetravel:(

Chuck :D

kpaavola
12-02-04, 04:35
Oh dear! :rolleyes:

I think it's still possible to do. Buy B&W film, select a subject, take 3 photos one with a blue filter, one with a red filter and one with a green filter. Then manipulate the image in your photo editing software. That's all there's too it! ;)

This may be a worthwhile project during the summer months when the Finns go on vacation and "the lists" die down from activity. :cool:

Cooper
12-02-04, 05:37
Thanks for the wonderful link!
And ideas, of course.

Attached is the picture of the first car in our family. (Circa 1913)

:)

granskare
12-02-04, 05:56
Hi Coop,
Great auto - do you know the make?

Chuck

sune
12-02-04, 09:15
Originally posted by kpaavola
Oh dear! :rolleyes:

I think it's still possible to do. Buy B&W film, select a subject, take 3 photos one with a blue filter, one with a red filter and one with a green filter.

I remember reading (could have been in a book about color photography by John Hedgcoe) that this was done with glass plates in the first years in the 20th century.

Sune

D.Frilund
12-02-04, 09:58
h, so little it takes to be misunderstood.

Thank you KPaavola for describing it, I shoud have done it
straight away too, and Gita for the questioning my skrivelse.

I didnt doubt the method described on the website.
The result is real color pictures because of the red green blue filtering method, which
provides the color information to the picture.
I was only trying to tell that if you try to do real color pictures
out of your black and white photos, the only method is to
paint them. There is examples on how old black and white Hollywood films have been changed to color films using a software.
But still it is like 'hand-coloring' the photo, only with the differece that a software is doing the hard job.
If you look at:
http://www.black-and-white-to-color.com
On that site is also explained how difficult it is to make a BW foto
to a real-like color photo.

Hope that this can clarify my view. Still, for me and for all of us,
it would be exiting if someone invents a new method to find the
'secret hidden' color infomation in a single
black and white image and to be able to make a real color picture
out of it. About this theme I think this disussion is about.
So we can all start doing experiments!

Gita Wiklund
12-02-04, 13:43
So we can all start doing experiments!

Yesss!!!

Cooper
13-02-04, 05:37
Originally posted by granskare
Hi Coop,
Great auto - do you know the make?

Chuck

Unfortunately, I do not remember the make.
My Dad does not remember-I asked him. And I found the picture in his archives.

:)

granskare
14-02-04, 20:34
Hi Coop,
I found the car in a big carbook in our local city library so even Czar Nicholas favored that car.
"...Among royal customers was Tsar Nicholas II of Russia who had a number of Delaunays, including the 70hp chain-driven six known as the model SMT [Sa Majest le Tsar]"
The source of the picture and description is "The Complete Encyclopedia of Motorcars 1885-1968" edited by G. N. Georgano, printed 1968
The car shown by Coop and this one are different - this has a set of small windows above the roofline while Coops car has a flat roof with luggage rack on top.
Chuck

Cooper
15-02-04, 07:08
Hi, Chuck,

Thanks for the reply and for the interest you have taken. Are you an old autos fan or a car fan or just a fan of everything that is worth remembering from our history?

Thank you very much for the name of the model.
Frankly, I am not a car expert and the make does not mean much to me but I am sure Dad will be happy to know it and he will ask more questions than I can answer.

By the way, judging by the picture our car was a bit more modest, do you agree?

:)

granskare
15-02-04, 21:15
Hi Coop,
I have a book at home about classic cars and first saw a 1906 Delahaye with virtually the same body so that suggests both companies used the same coachbuilder.
Then I found a website that spoke of the Czar having a car as in the picture I put up here. Finally I remembered a huge book in the local library and found the picture.
Both cars are quite similar and yours is a bit smaller. Your car does not have the small set of windows above the roof.
Hmm, with the Czar having owned such cars, wouldn't this put you in line for the St Petersburg throne?
Chuck

:D

Cooper
16-02-04, 05:47
Hi, Chuck!

We are not royal family descendants, unfortunately. But mine were aristicratic predecessors.
So, I am not very fond of the October events of 1917 and the consequences of them.

The genealogy was never welcome in our family, at least till the end of the communist era here. My father had even to join the communist party for the sake of our security.

The Englishmen say: every family has a sceleton in the closet.
We also do, eh?

Regards,

:)

granskare
16-02-04, 08:35
Hi Cooper,
Just a little joke about the throne but I suspected your family had to be in the aristocracy or successful in business. You were definitely a target of the communist crowd. I've read much about those times and the 1917-18 revolution in Finland and those were terrible times.

The book is not very clear on the various models available. The SMT was special for the Czar so not the model of your vehicle. Perhaps it was the 10CV that was first produced in 1909? From what I have read, the mark was well regarded as one of the finest in the world. I think a bit of searching on the net might provide an exact model now that we now the maker which of course was French. I once had a Peugeot and was delighted with that mark. Hmm, also drove a Citroen 2CV which was a gas:)
Chuck

granskare
16-02-04, 08:51
http://www.romford.org/transport/car/hare-hall/LD8278.htm
http://www.romford.org/transport/car/hare-hall/F1615-F90.htm

Hi Cooper,
It didn't take too long to find
but strong family resemblance is noticed and identified by one of the premier motor museums of Europe.

Chuck:)

Cooper
16-02-04, 16:14
Hi, Chuck,

Thanks for the link.
It is wonderful!
as for the car- I am not sure about the model but there really is some resemblance!

The museum is interesting.
I visited an auto museum somewhere not far from Vaasa but the cars there were all much newer!

:)

granskare
16-02-04, 21:08
It was interesting to find those cars and a make I'd never heard about.
I think these car threads ought to be shifted to that car thread Kevin put together.
We probably won't be able to get the precise model designation because we aren't that certain of the year of production of your car. The picture was done in 1912 at St. Pete and I couldn't translate the Russian above that line.
Maybe Kevin can handle that for us
Chuck
:D

Cooper
16-02-04, 21:32
Good idea, Chuck!

But June has already started a car thread (not an old autos one, of course) and there were not too many interested!

:)

granskare
16-02-04, 21:39
Hmm, I didn't know she had one so that explains maybe why most people have missed that one.

We shall demand of Hasse that he combine all car threads and of course do it at 3:00 am in Finland:D

Chuck

Cooper
16-02-04, 22:09
Probably the thread you offer has to be "old-timers only"?

:)

granskare
16-02-04, 22:19
I would think to limit it to old time cars or special cars like yours. Kevin's model A or was it a T was fun to see.
As for myself, I don't have pictures of the actual cars so only memories of what I was told. But that could also be interesting.
I remember when I was little we had a model A Ford and my dad put me on his lap to "drive" but I freaked out and didn't realize he was actually taking care of things:)
He used to have a garage in Champion, MI in the 1930s and told me that a guy from Detroit somehow developed a crack in the engine block so he welded a patch onto it in the hopes that the guy could get home to Detroit over 500 miles away. He often wondered if that guy ever made it home.
He told me in those days before I was born that he had a big old Packard that he got for maybe $50 or less. Depression times and those big cars loved gas.
In our family, one uncle always bought Oldsmobile cars and another only Pontiac cars:)
Chuck

June Pelo
16-02-04, 22:32
My father came to the US in 1909 and around 1923 he bought his first car. It was a Dort that had been the personal car of J. Dallas Dort of the Dort Motor Co. At that time there were no seat belts in cars, but Dad installed his own seat belts. The car had isinglass windows that could be snapped in when the weather was bad. He was the first person in our neighborhood to own a car; also our house was the first house to have inside plumbing, electric lights, washing machine, vacuum sweeper and later on we were the first to have a big radio and later on a television set. Our house was popular with the neighbors who didn't have those things. Here's a picture of the car. Dad worked for Buick Motor Co. so naturally later on our cars were Buicks.

June

granskare
16-02-04, 22:44
The big carbook says Dort cars were made in Flint, MI from 1915-1924 so your dad got one of the last models.
Of course you still have that car, right?:)

In Canada there was a Gray-Dort car made from 1915-25 that actually outsold the Chevrolet in Ontario!
Hmm, facts you always wanted to know:)

I wish my parents had used a camera with me at the wheel of that model A but alas, just a memory:(

Chuck:D

June Pelo
16-02-04, 23:03
Chuck,

Somewhere I have another picture of me strapped into the car with one of Dad's seatbelts. He was proud of that car. And he dressed up when he drove it: 3-piece suit, white shirt, tie and a hat. My father never went anywhere without a hat.

He kept the car a few years and then traded it in for a 1927 Pontiac that had a luggage rack on the side. He loaded up the luggage and the family and drove the car to Wrenshall, MN to visit his aunt who lived on a farm. He spoke of the almost non-existent roads, getting stuck in mud, flat tires, etc.

June

Claire
17-02-04, 02:52
Thank you, Gita

The site is really quite interesting. I did a search on "Finland" to see what I could find. It turned up several concerning Saimaa Canal and Saimaa Lake. I'm wondering if someone can tell me something about these locations?

D.Frilund
19-02-04, 12:14
Saimaa lake is located in the south eastern part of Finland.
The first Saimaa canal was built ready in 1856.The saimaa canal
goes from Lake Saimaa in Finland over the border to Russia
to the gulf of Finland. A Website with map:

http://www.fma.fi/vapaa_aikaan/kanavat/index.php?page=kartta

syrene
19-02-04, 16:47
Dear Finlanders,
I am reading a very informative book by Tuomo Polvinen, translated by Steven Huxley called Imperial Borderland. The author has used a lot of material archived in the USSR microfilm collection of the University of Helsinki. Much of the documents are letters between the Russian Ministers, and to the Tzar, which gives the reader insight into the motives and rationalizations which guided Russian dicta to Finland's Senate, and changes made by the order of the Tzar to the legal and educational system of Finland. The subtitle is Bobrikov and teh Attempted Russification of Finland, 1898-1904.

I may have to buy this book, it's so full of information I can't digest it all at first reading.
Syrene Forsman