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sylviadoris
04-03-04, 19:38
Although I now know my grandfather left Finland for England around 31st August 1891 (this is the date his passport was issued) I cannot find his name on any ship's list. His passport number is 609. He was 22 years of age. He was a journeyman tailor.
Did he leave from Hanko? Which port in England did he arrive at? Perhaps he travelled via Sweden and then......???
After he married, and produced two sons, my father and my uncle, he returned to Finland with my grandmother to visit his parents. I cannot find this information either. Come on now who is hiding this and why?

granskare
05-03-04, 06:12
I think we've looked for Frans Henrik Rosman going west so far. He did get to England some how but he does not show up on the migration website passenger lists, just passport list.

I have just checked each Norwegian port of departure, 9 ports, and can report that they do not list him or anybody named Rosman at that place.

I also tried the Danish website and did not find him.

I think I found your posting on some Finnish site giving Frans Henrik's father plus Frans Henrik's siblings.

Tomorrow I can give emigranten cd a try and that will take care of Finland, Norway Denmark and Sweden.

To the Finns here, I ask if there was the possibility of traveling east to St. Petersburg and then going from there for some reason. Unless emigranten shows him traveling, east to Russia or illegal emigration are left. Perhaps Frans didn't like the sea voyage and that could explain a roundabout way of reaching England.
Chuck

granskare
05-03-04, 10:00
"The years 1892-1896, 1899-1914, 1920-1939, 1949-1960 (original sources
of information cover only rather small part of all the emigrants after 1949). "
It was too simple. Frans departed in 1891 as stated and we just don't have anything for that year as yet. It would be nice if the British had lists of people who landed at Hull because that would answer the question of when he left and on which vessel and so forth.

Hmm, I was not wrong but a little late being right
Chuck;)

Kaj Granlund
05-03-04, 11:40
HI
There were posibilities to travel from several ports in the Russian impire (including Finland, the Baltic states).
A tailor could easily find job in St Petersburg and have continued from there...

But are we sure he travelled officially/legally (the passport indicates he did, doesn't it?). At that time many young men that were not immediatly picked to serve in the army, but were "waiting" as the first/second/third ones "if anything happened to the others" just escape, cause they felt the emperor did not keep the promice he gave the finnish people about serving in the army in 1809.

sylviadoris
05-03-04, 19:54
My grandfather really is a mystery isn 't he? After he married he returned to Finland, as I said, with my grandmother and the two young boys to visit his parents. If we could find out which way he took then, perhaps this was for him a "known" route as he'd done it before. The years he returned were 1901 and 1908.
Thanks for all the help I'm getting. I'll get there soon.I never give up. I did visit Finland two years ago, and hope in the near future to return and if possible meet some of my "distant" relations.
Sylvia

Kaj Granlund
05-03-04, 22:12
It just came into my mind. If he didn't at all use the passengerlines. Some of the many sailingships that went Finland - England - Australia could also take some passengers. Then maby some of the english harbours for saillingships would be possible immigrationplaces.

granskare
05-03-04, 23:07
Just checked the cd at Swenson and didn't find him but found about 8 Rosman people but all were from Sweden.

His returning to Finland in 1901 and 1908 suggests a return to England but no listing whatever which probably means he became a wealthy man in England and had his own yacht, steam yacht of course:)

His travels are a mystery because these later departures should show in the passenger lists so who knows, he became friends with somebody with a sail boat and he went with him to Finland. Such would of course not be listed except with customs and immigration authorities.

Is there such a list? People who departed but not on a commercial ship?
Chuck

jeanette
06-03-04, 01:18
Hi Sylvia,

Is it possible that after living in England for some time travel was undertaken under the name of Ross?

Or could a patronymic have been used?

Have you written to the Institue of Migration, Finland?
I understand they have more records than those available on-line.

http://www.utu.fi/erill/instmigr/index_e.htm

They also have a very good link page for emigration relating to family history
http://www.utu.fi/erill/instmigr/eng/e5_geneal.htm

Hoping you soon have a breakthrough.

Jeanette

sylviadoris
06-03-04, 21:38
My grandfather was not a particularly wealthy man although he did have a successful tailoring business in a fashionable part of London. I don't think he would have used a sailing ship to visit Finland with two small children. My father would have been then a few months old and his brother 2 years in 1901. He could have travelled through Germany, Sweden and then to Finland, but I don't know how to check this route.
When I went to Finland two years ago I travelled through Germany and caught a boat.

Anyway it's nice to have friends who are willing to help.

granskare
06-03-04, 21:54
Hi Sylvia,
My mention of a steam yacht was of course a try at being humorous:) but who knows who he had as a friend. Perhaps a wealthy customer?

The puzzle to me is that he traveled back to Finland during the times that the migration institute in Finland had records online and yet he does not appear there so maybe he might just have changed his surname to Ross or perhaps Roseman.
I think I will give the migration site a try by entering "ro" in the passenger surnames list and see what happens.

Chuck

granskare
06-03-04, 22:09
Hi Sylvia,
Well, this is the result from typing in ros with gb country of destination. Maybe you might recognize a surname here?
Chuck

sylviadoris
06-03-04, 23:20
Fancy 3 Rosmans, but no good Christian name. He was Frans Henric or Henrik. In England he called himself Frans Henry.
I do wish one of our family in Finland would write a message as I'm sure one of them must know a bit more.
I had a lot of help from Esa Rosman, but I only have an e-mail address of his and I think he feels he has done enough. But I of course want more!
Esa Rosman is definitely family. His grandfather and mine were cousins. There are still quite a number in the Pori Province and someone must have some more information, but how on earth can I get this?
I think the Fins speak very good English. In fact better than most countries, including the Netherlands. I have travelled to many countries and found Finland to be the country with the best spoken English.

granskare
06-03-04, 23:44
Ah, so he was a Christian man and not Jewish as those last 3 names seemed to suggest.
A check into hiski showed names over all of Finland with christenings only until 1817 so a big gap there.
Pori Province is a good lead so I will try hiski for that province alone and see what happens there:

Look at the attached image - could this be your Frans Henrik?

sylviadoris
07-03-04, 12:51
Do you work all night? The Frans Henrik which you found would I suppose be my grandfather's father and not my grandfather but great grandfather.
My grandfather was born 18.08.1869 and died 21.10.1908 (just 39 years of age)

granskare
07-03-04, 19:52
I was certainly not thinking on that one but just saw Frans Henric for the child and got excited. Too bad hiski has such a gap but it all depends upon volunteers in Finland entering data from those old records so I am not complaining. I have seen scans of really old records in Swedish - I don't know how people can make out that old old writing so hats off to them!
So I hope that this is your family and now you can make a trip to Finland to fill in that gap from 1817 to 1891!

Chuck:)