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K-G Molander
18-11-10, 17:24
I have search all the databases found in TALKO, but I found the data to be somewhat confusing.

First wife:
If NN Larsdotter died 1665, it follows that she is the mother of most of the children. It doesn't seems like everybody agrees with that.
Thus, my many ???

June Pelo
18-11-10, 18:39
K-G,

According to the Caino-Torp book, NN Larsdotter is the mother of 10 children. Gabriel remarried and had one child born 1668 in the second marriage. Unless someone proves the book to be wrong, we'll have to accept that the data in it is correct.

K-G Molander
19-11-10, 01:01
June,
Thank you for your quick reply.

One more thing. Emma b. 1663 ? Torp, Vetil. Daughter of Gabriel Olofsson b. 1609 Torp Vetil.

I find her married on 15.4.1683
Man Village / Farm Ämmäis Name Thomas Peerson
Wife Village / Farm Name Pig. Malin Gabr:d:r Tårpp

And I find her (name missing) dead on:
Died / Buried 0.0.1706 21.1.1706 Village / Farm
Deceased hust. Cause of death / Age 60 years - months - weeks - days. Relative Tomas Liedis

Thus, it appears as Emma is the 2nd wife and her birth year should be 1645/1646.

Vetil Parish:
Born Christened Village Farm Father Child
11.1.1674 1674 Tomas Peerson Liedis Elin
22.9.1675 1675 Ämmäs Tomas Peerson Mattz
3.3.1676 1676 Liedis Tomas Peerson Walborg
10.4.1679 1679 Tomas Peers: Liedi Margeta
11.6.1680 1680 Thomas Peerson Liedi Peer
19.5.1682 1682 Thomas Peers. Liedi Karin
24.5.1685 1685 Thomas Peers: Liedi Eric
4.10.1685 1685 Thomas Peers: Ämmäin Thomas
13.3.1687 1687 Thomas Peers. Liedi Thomas
4.3.1688 1688 Thomas Peers: Ämmäs Johan

Any comment about Emmas birth date as 1645/1646?

June Pelo
19-11-10, 01:38
K-G,

The Caino-Torp book doesn't have an Emma born to Gabriel Torp. He had a daughter Malin, b. ca 1663 who married 15 Apr 1683 to Thomas Persson Emmes, and they had 3 children. Son Matts was baptized 19 Feb 1684 in Vetil; Thomas, baptized 1685; and Johan baptized 1688.

Thomas Persson Emmes was married twice - Beata Hindersdotter, but no indication if she was first or second wife - no data about her at all. If he married Malin in 1683, then some of those children listed in your mail could have been born to Beata. The book makes no mention of them.

K-G Molander
19-11-10, 15:49
You are right. The name is Malin!

Thank you again.

K-G Molander
19-11-10, 16:48
I don't have The Caino-Torp book in my library or access to it. If there is a source listed for Malin's birth year and stating that she was born in 1663, I would like to know what it is.

I would think that children born to Tomas befor 1683 belongs to a previous wife. Thus, Malin would be the 2nd wife and she is the one found dead in 1706.

(I found one more marriage. Could this be a 3rd marriage?
17.10.1707 Tomas Peers. Liedis H:u, Sold. Mattz Backalas E:a Anna Gabrielsd:r)

So the question still remains, was it Malin Gabrielsdotter who died 21 Jan 1706? (I believe so) And her age recorded as 60 years old. If so, her birth year would be 1645/1646. Not 1663.

Sincerely,

June Pelo
19-11-10, 17:35
RE a 3rd marriage: Thomas Persson Liedes, 1648-1707, married 1707 in Vetil to Anna Gabrielsdotter Storcaino, 1662-1752. She was married three times: #1 to Backala; #2 to Liedes; #3 to Luomala.

As for sources of the Caino-Torp book, there was a committee that traveled around to the parishes gathering data and it was then put together and printed. There are 2 pages in the book, listing the bibliography and family history sources. I don't know where the birthdate of 1663 comes from, except that it's published in the book.

kivinen1
20-11-10, 00:03
Not to be a busy body, but I wanted those that are unfamiliar with the book to know that there is also a pdf of corrections to the hard copy, so both should be referenced.

Not that it necessarily applies in the case discussed above.

June Pelo
20-11-10, 00:07
K-G,

I meant to comment that Thomas Persson Emmes and Thomas Persson Liedes are not the same people. Both appear in the list you enclosed, showing births of their children.

K-G Molander
20-11-10, 00:12
Thank you both.
I truly appreciate the knowledge and help available at this forum.

Have a great Thanksgiving Day:)